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Here's what the Monacoers have been talking about:
Index
MIRIAM
Dr4Film
MIRIAM
CAT Stephen
Dr4Film
96 EVO
Tom Cherry
96 EVO
Dr4Film
Tom Cherry
96 EVO
Tom Cherry
Dr4Film
96 EVO
Discussions
MIRIAM
9 hours ago, Bill R said:Maybe look at the lights at night when it is dark outside to confirm the red light is illuminated by the bulb and not a reflective pseudo illumination.
I did do that and took a photo, too. I went ahead and bought a new one, just on the chance it's my unit. I'll know when that comes in from Amazon and I think I'll buy an EMS one to try that, too. I can return it, if ends up not being needed, but worth a try.
again, because it's allowing power AND my coach surge guard (which checks for open neutral) is allowing power and I have no power issues, it's the weirdest thing and making me feel like I'm being gaslit HA! I see it and I know it's there, but not acting like it.....so, I'm just going to buy a new one to check. It's not lit up when plugged into the pedestal by itself, but I plug my cord and it lights up (lightly) - I'm going to video it today....just because it's the craziest thing and you can see the difference. At least I've learned so much while trying to figure this out, so that is my silver lining.....
jacwjames
engine surges with 4 way flashers
Mike Farquharson
have only tried the flashers in neutral will put it in drive and try it , Thanks Mike
Dr4Film
1 hour ago, MIRIAM said:I went ahead and bought a new one, just on the chance it's my unit. I'll know when that comes in from Amazon and I think I'll buy an EMS one to try that, too. I can return it, if ends up not being needed, but worth a try.
again, because it's allowing power AND my coach surge guard (which checks for open neutral) is allowing power and I have no power issues, it's the weirdest thing and making me feel like I'm being gaslit HA! I see it and I know it's there, but not acting like it.....so, I'm just going to buy a new one to check. It's not lit up when plugged into the pedestal by itself, but I plug my cord and it lights up (lightly) - I'm going to video it today....just because it's the craziest thing and you can see the difference. At least I've learned so much while trying to figure this out, so that is my silver lining.....
You are not understanding the function of the SSP-50XL. That device will ONLY check the quality of your power. It will NOT shut down any errant power condition from entering your coach. You have to have one of the more expensive Progressive Industries EMS devices for those added and necessary functions.
However, you should not need a new EMS one either as that's exactly what your combination Southwire Surge Guard EMS Transfer Switch does, it will shut down any errant power conditions from going further into your coach.
However, you have yet to answer whether you have the Surge Guard Remote Display which will tell you what your transfer switch is doing WRT the quality of the power and what is happening inside your transfer switch. I am not familiar with the Southwire error codes that the display will show or what it actually displays versus the Progressive Industries error codes and its display.
Dr4Film
16 hours ago, PeterSchweizer said:When n what department who did you ask? Seems when I contact Rev by phone,customer service or tec support the say the do not support the older Monoco company coaches mine is 2004. The information is not in there present system but on an arrived? Mico fish system that Rev will not allow them to access. Also if I send an inquiry via Revs web site I get no responce.
I happen to be reading a thread back in 2023 about Data Cards. Filled out the request on line and got the Data Card sent to my email.
Here's the link to the post.
MIRIAM
37 minutes ago, Dr4Film said:You are not understanding the function of the SSP-50XL. That device will ONLY check the quality of your power. It will NOT shut down any errant power condition from entering your coach. You have to have one of the more expensive Progressive Industries EMS devices for those added and necessary functions.
However, you should not need a new EMS one either as that's exactly what your combination Southwire Surge Guard EMS Transfer Switch does, it will shut down any errant power conditions from going further into your coach.
However, you have yet to answer whether you have the Surge Guard Remote Display which will tell you what your transfer switch is doing WRT the quality of the power and what is happening inside your transfer switch. I am not familiar with the Southwire error codes that the display will show or what it actually displays versus the Progressive Industries error codes and its display.
I thought I answered that - I do not have the surge guard remote, so I assume original owner opted out of that piece.
either way, when going out this AM to check and take a video (was going to show how the PI lights red as soon as I plug my cable in from MY coach - but NOT when it's just in pedestal by itself)
would you believe that red light is no longer illuminating at all.....I feel like I have been gaslit for the last 3 days, but I learned so much in the process, so I guess it's not all bad.
see - and compare - it had the light and light is gone now. Fluke or not, I have a new PI on the way and will keep a spare just in case anyway.
again, with just the PI plugged to the pedestal, it was NOT red and red lit lightly when I plugged in MY cable (from my coach) to it.....was that way since Saturday.
as of this AM - no longer showing red - it's the damndest thing.
im not crazy and have photos to prove! HA!
this photo is NOW :
this was yesterday:
joefromperry
Like many posting previously, the fans on my 2003 signature, ISX 525 run full speed all the time. Before I bother the guys at Source Engineering, I'm hoping those of you who have already been told and tried to both plug the two lines and then join the two lines can help me out. Looking at the picture, is this the control I should be working on with the two lines, and if so, what size / type of plugs and union should I be getting? After trying both "tests," what conclusions can be drawn?
Other picture: near the fan control (if that's what it is) I have this extra connector hanging, and I don't see a mate. I know it could just be unused, but any ideas what it might be for on another coach? BTW, the loose wires on the other connector have already been repaired.
CAT Stephen
You asked about best approach for surge protectors, but I suggest expanding it to electrical RV protection. Aside from the multiple pedestal wiring faults that are detected by most surge suppressors, another extremely harmful pedestal condition is low voltage. Low voltage (i.e. < 100VAC) from the pedestal caused by undersized campground wiring infrastructure and / or heavy campground grid load due to summer heat (Lots of A/Cs pulling heavy loads exceeding the campground grid design capacity) will result in RV electrical motors, such as RV A/C motors, overheating, burning out, and potentially catching on fire. Also, many electronics such as microwaves and televisions, can be heavily damaged and rendered scrap with low voltage.
The root cause of low voltage in campgrounds is that most campgrounds have existed for more than 50+ years and were wired during an era where there were no fifth wheels and large class "A"s with each having two to three rooftop ACs. The solution, especially with federal and state owned campgrounds, has been to simply upgrade the pedestals above ground without addressing changing our the wiring infrastructure within the ground due to high replacement cost.
So, there are two approaches to protecting your RV against low voltage:
- Verify that the RV surge protector that you are purchasing will shut down the power to your RV in the event of low voltage
- Although this protects your RV against dangerous low voltage, it does not address low voltage
- Same as above, but also add a Hughes Autoformer Voltage Booster between your RV Surge Protector and your campground pedestal:
-
Magnum Inverter/charger gremlin/issue
BobbyboyOK; I give up. I took the cover off; everything looked fine. Had all power disconnected (DC and AC) Sprayed a little contact cleaner; checked the DC voltage all good AC voltage all good. Put it back together and gave it a try. It stayed on for about 3- 4 minutes and "clicked off". Tried it several times and same results. So I know the transfer relays are probably shot and after reviewing Frank's video there is no way I am going to attempt to replace them myself ( if that is the problem). And a repair would not be a confidence builder.
Does anyone recommend a Magnum dealer that may be able to sell me a new one?? I think there is one in Oregon that I am going to search.
Thanks for everyone's help, especially Tom and Frank, but as they say "it is what it is". After 16 years I guess its time.
Bob L, 08 dynasty
Dr4Film
@MIRIAM I would highly recommend purchasing the remote display for your transfer switch. Search the Internet as the prices vary significantly from hundreds of dollars to less than ten dollars. You need model #40299 Remote Display.
Surge protector questions. Locations? Hard wired vs Pedestal plug in? Discussion and advice needed.
96 EVO
Your money, but, that transfer switch you have does everything a portable PI-EMS does!
Like Richard mentioned, adding the remote display would be a bonus!
scottknight
Amazon has some models and sometimes in your cart will have a link to the product mfg that can give additional resources. I have found this product of high value, the owner's manual seems so complete for everyday use , sugestions on install, some trouble shooting when things may not be working right. When I chose to upgrade I kept the old unit for a off grid greenhouse/ mancave option. (still in planning stage) fans, lights 12 volt water pumps . When I installed the new inverter i shimmed the fan side up to help with heat because of partition in storage bin (Monoco installed) and added a vent into rear cap of MH to try and remove heat. I see heat and road vibration as possible future problem makers.
engine surges with 4 way flashers
Benjamin
While you're at it. Leave it in neutral with the flashers on and engine revving, and take a look at the injection pump "throttle" shaft and shut off shaft to see if they are moving with the revving.
I'm assuming the engine is surging in time with the flashers, but you didn't say that. What is the timing of the engine surges?
Chad A
I have a 2003 ISX as well. My fan would run wide open all the time.
I did not do any tests, I just took it in to have the wax valve installed. Source did it for the business that I was working with for some other repairs.
Has worked flawlessly, knock on wood, since the wax valve install.
Tom Cherry
OK….follow up and background as well as the most probable cause for Miriam’s issue. Spent time on phone with Miriam last night. Called Progressive this morning. Then followup with Miriam and also sorted out a few nuances. I may have skimmed, but the real issues were sort of in the background. She also clarified another key point.
- Was on 30 Amp power. AC on. Gas refrigerator on AC. Magnum charge rate was set high or not scaled back. Was running washer….has separate dryer…not on. The entire system or local grid blipped…as in on and off several times or at least a noticeable blip and interruption.
- AGS kicked on even though the 30 second timer had not timed down?? A puzzlement…but obviously some “unusual” power blips or surges or such.
- AC and Washer never shut down. Interior light (12 VDC) did flicker…but came back on….potential battery issue. She had not disabled Search Watts.
- Progressive showed an OPEN NEUTRAL. Miriam, as a precaution let the genny run and checked it. But she STILL had 30 A power….the error or fault codes were her concern. She unplugged and then plugged back in….still had the open neutral fault. But, the LED (red) was faint. This was an error code that could have been a result of a built up charge. THEN all the posting.
- This morning, as she was going to test the Progressive on an adjoining pedestal with a different 30-50 dogbone….all was well. FIXED ITSELF. I did NOT know that until after I talked to Progressive the first time. Their tech support guy was great….listened and commented and theorized…..so, here is what he and I concluded….not knowing that she DID have power but had error codes….which disappeared….
OK…bit of information for those who help and also have different MH. That Beaver is a “blend” of features and systems that I don’t ever remember reading about.
- 2003….but has an early version Intellitec MPX. Only TWO output modules…not 3 like the Camelots and has a large free standing Master Control module….NOT an IPX.
- Has NO Intellitec EMS system. It has the Dual IN - Dual OUT, with subpanel system like on the Dynasty’s.
- Also, the Surgeguard full featured ATS was standard….but no remote monitoring. Did not get to ask about an Aladdin?.?.
- The PO did a major rework of the HVAC system. Pulled out the FF fan in the rear galley area and put in a THIRD Dometic….and stole power from the Block Heater circuit. FWIW…Beaver never out a FF in the hallway between the galley and bedroom. The only FF left in toilet.
- SO…keep this in mind if advice is given…this is a “rare bird”….then modified and even more customized…
OK….this is the gist of the call to Progressive…I made one….then got information from Miriam as she described the lights a little more concisely….so TWO tech support folks both agreed…..
- The simple 6 light PI surge suppressor is also a PEDESTAL Tester. Miriam was using that feature, but she was not turning back off the breaker before she plugged in the 30-50 adapter. Is changing that. Therefore, the PI is designed for “no load” testing of a Pedestal.
- The PI is strictly a “remote” monitoring device. It has surge MOV’s but NO contactor….like the HW50C….so, good bad or indifferent, it WILL allow substandard power to be passed on. BUT you will have idiotic lights….
- We discussed the fact that when she plugged in the adapter, she got the error code. BTW….if there was a OPEN Neutral, the PI would display that regardless of on a 30 or 50.
- SOME folks think that having upstream MOV will protect their downstream high $$ ATS….NO evidence of that….but it is commonly done….
- We concluded that there must be a “load” or high resistance issue in the 6 points or connections from the PI Neutral to the Neutral attachment to the receptacle inside the pedestal.
- He also stated that it was not necessary and redundant to have two suppressors in series. They had discussed internally but did not know that NEC and UL, at least several years ago, had said NOT to daisy chain 120 VAC units like a suppressor power strip used with a UPS suppressor.
- Agreed with the testing steps that Miriam planned to do this morning.
BOTTOM LINE…..the gist of follow up comments from Progressive….
- The dogbones were probably overloaded. A quick amp add got the total to well over 30. May not have tripped the breaker, but the load was probably in excess.
- Second. There is probably a small amount of potential between the Neutral and Ground….which, if to Code, was back in the main panel. The PI has been known to have a dim LED if the voltage or potential between Ground and Neutral is approaching the “OMG TURN ON” full intensity. So, ODDS ARE….there is the possibility of wiring or connection issues….which they often see and a different pedestal will not display the same errors as the “connections” are tight.
- Next…the overloading of a Dogbone and a high resistance connection will/may give a false or dim positive.
- Finally….the PI on Saturday night, based on temperatures and humidity may have cleared in the early hours….but heat and load might have created, again, the same scenario. If it is OK today….testing or overloading it would not be recommended….but if that is the need, then it could very well display the false positive error code….
-
PI will do some investigation and get back on the advisability of daisy chaining….
Miriam now has a much better understanding of how all this works and realizes that the PI she has is only good, basically, for testing and that her Surgeguard ATS is the main line of defense….
Tom Cherry
2 hours ago, joefromperry said:Like many posting previously, the fans on my 2003 signature, ISX 525 run full speed all the time. Before I bother the guys at Source Engineering, I'm hoping those of you who have already been told and tried to both plug the two lines and then join the two lines can help me out. Looking at the picture, is this the control I should be working on with the two lines, and if so, what size / type of plugs and union should I be getting? After trying both "tests," what conclusions can be drawn?
Other picture: near the fan control (if that's what it is) I have this extra connector hanging, and I don't see a mate. I know it could just be unused, but any ideas what it might be for on another coach? BTW, the loose wires on the other connector have already been repaired.
There were a LOT of posts by a RIP member and he helped folks “fix” their S-D devices……not always, but high success. He concluded, and some members with hands on experience may chime in. This was on an 06 ISL Dynasty.
He found evidence of moisture and corrosion inside the S-D unit. He took it apart….as in pulling the cover off or maybe pulling the board out. Cleaned all the connections or checked them. I don’t know if he used the time honored trick of spraying the board with WD 40 to displace any moisture and then a “ELECTRONIC CLEANER” Bath (not ELECTRICAL). That has solved countless moisture and corrosion issues.
He also checked all the connections (electrical) from the ECM to the unit snd to the controller) and clesned them. He did mount the controller 180 from OEM to prevent further buildup of moisture. This has generally solved issues….but if the S-D is bad or damaged….NOPE.
Do a Key Word search…use SAUER or SAUER-DANFOSS or FAN or FAN CONTROLLER….or mix a few. THEN select TOPICS from the EVERYWHERE Drop Down menu. Sauer and Fan gets you a lot 2 pages back to 2020. May be more with other combinations…
Good Luck
96 EVO
Yeah, good chance the washing machine put you over the top of what a 30A shore connection is capable of!
scottknight
all 4 front air bags are installed I have just replaced height adj valve ready for road test 115 degrees soon today swamp cooler keeping me at a wet 86+ . I am close to the recomended height. But i am running Koni shocks . I have thought this group as if I have a copilot wherever i go .............. thanks to all. Any ideas will be well received .
the original bags were tested by using simple air tool fitting and submerged in 5 gallon pail no leaks found, and new bags were tested also. The old bags were original could hold air like a container but maybe overtime lost some flexibility (?) over its life cycle.
some fittings became problematic because the packinging was suspiciously different then web page sales suggested. complaint to vender was a form letter response with a bad reply link, reorder different vendor move foward.
This morning i have a level coach not totally know why the height adj valve to controls both sides of front bags made that left lean after sitting 24 to 48 hours go away. When i do a air dump no problem..... time will tell if that stays. I am a 37ft 3 slider. At times in a stationary stop it felt like the front suspension was hunting for a happy spot as if semi trucks were passing me on the side of the road. The height adjust valve was also original 2005ish but showed fitting wear and was replaced. This valve has no brains and is open or closed. I tried to dissect old valve to see if the area of the valve most likely used could be worn more but failed to disasemble properly. There was some fish smelling oil in the valve and i was at a point that nothing new could be learned....... Any ideas ?
Tom Cherry
15 hours ago, Russgh said:Richard thanks for the photo. That solenoid looks a lot like the my first first photo of the one in the front bay. The attached photo is of the solenoid in the battery compartment and appears to be connected between the batteries and it is a Trombetta. When it cools off a bit more tonight I will attempt a test of the switch to determine which one it is and report back.
Keep LOOKING….that is NOT the Salesman Solenoid. That is a Boost Switch Solenoid. SO…I blew up the First ONE… NOW, that does, since it has the TWO fuse holders and only ONE fuse…be the correct on. Richard may have missed this and I read the board label…
SO…. The noost is in the rear. That is clear on your print….and we can see how it is connected.
SO….back to the FRONT….
I DID reread the 2003 Endeavor manual. The description and switch is way different from what we usually see. We need three item.
Picutre of the INTERIOR Battery cut off switch in YOUR MH.
Picture of the explanation and use a d such from whichever manual best MATCHES the interior switch you have…
GOOD PICTURE….pull away the looms and wiring….of the label or plate on the front Solenoid. If NOT, copy it all down and post.
THEN we can cross reference that Solenoid.
FINALLY…a real bonus….look at your prints….if you have them. Post a picture of the Front Run Bay, ( FRB)…schematic or however many you have. That is the one you call that would be accessible from the outside snd is directly UNDER the drivers seat or close. FRB is what Monaco calls it and what the abbreviation is
THANKS….
klcdenver
Since you have a smart wheel and that is how you can adjust the idle, maybe it is getting an erroneous signal thru it. Try canceling on the smart wheel and run the idle up and down using the buttons on the smart wheel. Just a wild guess.
Dr4Film
It still boggles my mind why Monaco decided not to install the Intellitec EMS System in the higher end coaches. My 02 Windsor has it but my 06 Dynasty does not nor does it come on the Exec's or Sig's. You would think that it would have been more advantages to install it on the higher end coaches which can have a lot of amps being drawn versus the lower end ones which don't have the same amount of amp draw.
It would sure help with people who don't have the skill set to monitor the amount of amps they are drawing with a 50 amp coach while on 30 amp power supply.
Bill Groves, (RIP) personally installed the Intellitec EMS in his 06 Dynasty. If I ever get most of the more important projects completed with my Dynasty, I may think about adding it my Dynasty but for now I know how to manage the amp draw when on any 30 amp pedestal. Haven't been on one since owning the coach in 2022.
Tom Cherry
12 minutes ago, 96 EVO said:Yeah, good chance the washing machine put you over the top of what a 30A shore connection is capable of!
Remember….she does NOT have the COMBO Splendide, like I have or maybe you have. Separate units…and the dryer was not on. BUT….here is my theoretical
Front AC - 17 A
REFER - 5 A.
Splendide WASHER ONLY 6 A…from the tech specs for the washing machine only one.
Magnum at Bulk, 100% charge 10 A
SO FAR 38 A….assuming no circulating fans, no hair dryers, no corn popping in Microwave….NO TV’s or Receivers (sound amps) on….etc….ETC.
timaz996
Yours does not look anything like my wax valve. I have no electrical connections as the valve in mounted in the back radiator tank. I have the same mfg but totally different.
Dr4Film
@Tom CherryThe solenoid in his first photo has the house on one side and the chassis on the other side. This would not be a "salesman" house only solenoid.
The solenoid he needs to find with have the house battery bank supply feed on one side and the house supply on the other. It should have nothing to do with ANY chassis batteries.
96 EVO
Tom, I'll be interested in hearing what Progressive Industries has to say about daisy chaining Surge protectors!
Little surprised they don't already have a definitive answer on that subject.
Tom Cherry
16 minutes ago, 96 EVO said:Tom, I'll be interested in hearing what Progressive Industries has to say about daisy chaining Surge protectors!
Little surprised they don't already have a definitive answer on that subject.
They have discussed it….but not extensively. Miriam is going to quiz South Wire. The tech at PI is also going to ask for a definitive answer and will get back to me. Will post when something substantial is available. The is a topic of debate on some other sites…lots of opinions but based on little if any research or technical info.
Dr4Film
2 hours ago, Tom Cherry said:They have discussed it….but not extensively. Miriam is going to quiz South Wire. The tech at PI is also going to ask for a definitive answer and will get back to me. Will post when something substantial is available. The is a topic of debate on some other sites…lots of opinions but based on little if any research or technical info.
I will post this question to Mike Sokol who is a RV Electrical guru who has his own newsletter, etc. He likes to "test" a lot of different scenario's. So let's see what he has to say also.
96 EVO
I know several years ago on IRV, owners of the original Hughes Autoformers (myself included), debated putting a cheap surge protector, that wouldn't shut down power for low voltage, upstream of their Hughes, to protect it, then a PI-EMS behind the autoformer.
I rarely use my Autoformer, and never did this.
Superpro14
well , my problem seems to be at the pump, waxvalve hooked up fan slow on start up and hot, disconnect the two lines plug same think, couple the two line same thing, any suggestions, thanks
Rheine
I got Amazon headlights. Did not fit. Actually once you break off unnecessary tabs they bolt right up. Problem is they point so low the adjuster cannot make up the difference. The LR adjuster was broken.
identify fan control and extra connector
joefromperry
2 hours ago, Tom Cherry said:There were a LOT of posts by a RIP member and he helped folks “fix” their S-D devices……not always, but high success. He concluded, and some members with hands on experience may chime in. This was on an 06 ISL Dynasty.
He found evidence of moisture and corrosion inside the S-D unit. He took it apart….as in pulling the cover off or maybe pulling the board out. Cleaned all the connections or checked them. I don’t know if he used the time honored trick of spraying the board with WD 40 to displace any moisture and then a “ELECTRONIC CLEANER” Bath (not ELECTRICAL). That has solved countless moisture and corrosion issues.
He also checked all the connections (electrical) from the ECM to the unit snd to the controller) and clesned them. He did mount the controller 180 from OEM to prevent further buildup of moisture. This has generally solved issues….but if the S-D is bad or damaged….NOPE.
Do a Key Word search…use SAUER or SAUER-DANFOSS or FAN or FAN CONTROLLER….or mix a few. THEN select TOPICS from the EVERYWHERE Drop Down menu. Sauer and Fan gets you a lot 2 pages back to 2020. May be more with other combinations…
Good Luck
Thank you, Tom. I will probably take it apart to clean it; I'm already working on checking the electrical connections and cleaning them with DeoxiT. Fingers crossed.
2 hours ago, timaz996 said:Yours does not look anything like my wax valve. I have no electrical connections as the valve in mounted in the back radiator tank. I have the same mfg but totally different.
In researching I've realized that the controls are either wax valve, as you have mounted on the radiator, or the S-D controller as I have. Not seeing anything for or against either.
cbr046
Can you space the mounting tabs with washers to lift the beam up?
- bob
jacwjames
Might as well remove the pump and have a look at it. If you can't see any physical damage to the gears and the pump isn't leaking it might just be bypassing internally and just needs a seal kit.
My pump has two circuits, one for steering and one for the hydraulic fan. If you steering is fine then it might just be the fan circuit. In my case REVrvparts.com does sell a seal kit for my pump Surge protector questions. Locations? Hard wired vs Pedestal plug in? Discussion and advice needed.
Dr4Film
@96 EVO When we were full-time RVing staying at a variety of locations all over the country including Canada and Alaska, I was using the Todd Coffelt Power Master VC-50 first inline from the pedestal followed by the Progressive Industries EMS-HW-50C followed by my Lyght Transfer Switch. I never got shut down for low voltage anywhere.
Plus I had an additional 3580 Joules of surge protection in front of the EMS-HW-50C unit which also has 3580 Joules of surge protection.
Rheine
2 hours ago, cbr046 said:Can you space the mounting tabs with washers to lift the beam up?
- bob
Yes tried that, added a nut maybe quarter inch. Tried to adjust up from there. Still down 20" Then the adjuster came loos inside the housing.
R
Mike Wahl
On 11/2/2021 at 5:41 PM, jimc99999 said:I'm now replacing my 24 year old electronics in my 97 Windsor with the ML-ACR. Thanks for the tip on using a step drill bit, it works great to enlarge the holes in the wires.
I do have a couple questions. Is it necessary to set up the start isolation if you are starting the coach while plugged into shore power or with the generator running?
Also, should the second isolation circuit be configured to prevent connecting the sides while both the alternator and the generator are charging (I.e. running the generator while driving)? Or does that not really matter too much?
I'm working on updating our 2001 Signature with the ML-ACR. I have the same questions at Jimc99999, however have not been able to find an answer. I thought I would ask questions here so in the future when someone searches this can find this answer.
1) Is it necessary to set up the start isolation if you are starting the coach while plugged into shore power or with the generator running?
2) Should the second isolation circuit be configured to prevent connecting the sides while both the alternator and the generator are charging (I.e. running the generator while driving)?
I'm I am overthinking this or is there issues if both the alternator and invertor/charger are charging. Will the two sources "fight" and cause issues with the alternator and/ charger. If it is better to isolate, what is the best source for the output signal from my Trace Engineering RV3012M.
jacwjames
My Bluesea MLACR has been installed almost 3 years.
I am not using any of the additional isolation features. Initially I was concerned enough to wiring a fused harness for the isolation but never have used them. But I've not seen any ill affects.
I've only read of a couple people doing it.
MHRookie
Mike,
I’ll take a shot at answering your question…
1) Is it necessary to set up the start isolation if you are starting the coach while plugged into shore power or with the generator running?
Answer) “on shore power” you don’t need the isolation wiring. You can simply connect the battery boost wire, the yellow LED wire, the power & ground wires. Leave the switch in “AUTO”. If you want to isolate to start, toggle switch to “OFF”. This assumes you are just going to start coach for a short period of time.
”on generator” to just start coach, it’s ok if they are connected. If going to start and then take off with gen running select “off”.
2) Should the second isolation circuit be configured to prevent connecting the sides while both the alternator and the generator are charging (I.e. running the generator while driving)?
Answer) same as above wiring. When alternator & generator are both running, toggle the switch to “OFF” position.
I am overthinking this or is there issues if both the alternator and invertor/charger are charging. Will the two sources "fight" and cause issues with the alternator and/ charger. If it is better to isolate, what is the best source for the output signal from my Trace Engineering RV3012M.
Answer) if I understand this correctly, you are asking if there is an issue with alternator running and using the inverter charger… NO there is not (as long as you don’t run the generator). The alt is the only charging function running in your question.
Rule of thumb for RV use… leave switch in “auto”. When one charge function is in use… “auto”, when 2 charge functions are in use, select “off”, then return to “auto” when back to one.
hopefully this didn’t confuse you.
Kurt
jimc99999
2 hours ago, Mike Wahl said:
I'm working on updating our 2001 Signature with the ML-ACR. I have the same questions at Jimc99999, however have not been able to find an answer. I thought I would ask questions here so in the future when someone searches this can find this answer.1) Is it necessary to set up the start isolation if you are starting the coach while plugged into shore power or with the generator running?
2) Should the second isolation circuit be configured to prevent connecting the sides while both the alternator and the generator are charging (I.e. running the generator while driving)?
I'm I am overthinking this or is there issues if both the alternator and invertor/charger are charging. Will the two sources "fight" and cause issues with the alternator and/ charger. If it is better to isolate, what is the best source for the output signal from my Trace Engineering RV3012M.
I did not wire up any isolation circuits. I have started the motor while connected to shore power and while running the generator with no problems. I have run the generator while driving with no problems. In fact since I changed the generator to start from the chassis batteries instead of house batteries when I installed the ML-ACR, I have left the ML-ACR in automatic mode since I installed it and have pretty much not touched it.
The charging sources don't "fight"; I think the inverter/charger (powered by the generator when driving) charges at a higher voltage than the alternator, and so the alternator doesn't push charging current, since it sees the batteries as being charged. I haven't driven with the house batteries at a low level, when I boondocked I ran the generator a while before leaving so the house batteries wouldn't be too low.
GMan81
Glenn, what did you have to take apart to get access to the valve?
Thanks Marlon
MHRookie
36 minutes ago, jimc99999 said:I did not wire up any isolation circuits. I have started the motor while connected to shore power and while running the generator with no problems. I have run the generator while driving with no problems. In fact since I changed the generator to start from the chassis batteries instead of house batteries when I installed the ML-ACR, I have left the ML-ACR in automatic mode since I installed it and have pretty much not touched it.
The charging sources don't "fight"; I think the inverter/charger (powered by the generator when driving) charges at a higher voltage than the alternator, and so the alternator doesn't push charging current, since it sees the batteries as being charged. I haven't driven with the house batteries at a low level, when I boondocked I ran the generator a while before leaving so the house batteries wouldn't be too low.
Jim,
I’m definitely not an expert on the charge issue potential with alt & gen running. The only thing I’ve read “so far” from others with issues is the “alt fail” light come on when alt & gen are running. The fix was to turn on headlights or a source that would require alt to ramp up its output. It’s nice to hear you have not en countered any issues.
waterskier_1
1 hour ago, MHRookie said:Jim,
I’m definitely not an expert on the charge issue potential with alt & gen running. The only thing I’ve read “so far” from others with issues is the “alt fail” light come on when alt & gen are running. The fix was to turn on headlights or a source that would require alt to ramp up its output. It’s nice to hear you have not en countered any issues.
The issue with running the generator - really running the inverter/charger charging while the alternator is also running is the inverter/charger will fool the alternator's voltage regulator into thinking its (the alternator) output is higher than needed, so it tells the alternator to decrease output. It may decrease the output so much that the ALT-FAIL circuit thinks the alternator has failed. The engineers didn't consider this configuration when they designed the ALT-FAIL circuitry until 2006 or so when they designer a defeat in that alarm circuitry in the BIRD (Bidirectional Isolator Relay Delay) circuitry. As mentioned, sometimes adding an additional load will satisfy the ALT-FAIL circuit. This in no way causes electrical concern, only the monitoring circuit is affected. This may occur anytime the inverter/charger is operating while the main engine is running - on Shore Power or Generator. To confirm this condition, turn OFF the inverter battery charger by either disconnecting Shore, turning OFF the generator, or turning OFF the Battery Charger on the Inverter Remote Panel and confirm the ALT-FAIL alarm clears.
- Rick N
amphi_sc
Just a short update. At this point I think part of the 12v system isn't kicking in although most of it is! So far I've only seen the BigBoy not automatically kicking in AND the Aqua hot "furnace" blowers not coming on. All lights, Aqua Hot electric and diesel, fantastic fans, mascerator pump and toilet, water hose & elec cord reel and everything else 12v I've tried seems to be working normally. Been trying to look at the schematics for something in common with the BB control board 6 12 volt detection & Aqua Hot blowers but nothing jumping out me yet, but I'll keep digging.i have cycled the salesman switch a couple of times and both battery disconnects. It won't be raining so much tomorrow so maybe I can probe around some more.
However I have noticed something even weirder. Sun came out for a while and solar exceeded 12 v demand thus Magnum went from float charge to 'full charge' so both banks of batteries settled at 12.8. After the sun went down and some light use the Magnum went back to Float charge but this is interesting; House went to 13.4 and chassis climbed to 13.0 but BigBoy not engaged and when I press the Bat Boost switch I hear the BB click and house drops from 13.4 to 13.3 - chassis climbed from 13.0 to 13.3. release the boost and drops back to 13.0. Bit why would the chassis battery have climbed from 12.8 to 13.0 after the sun went down without the BB combining the banks? Is there some cross feed happening somewhere? Gotta dig more... especially with the hot water heat blowers acting weird.
And thanks to Frank for the video, very helpful.
Rory W
I haven't used them but have heard good about them call Terry's truck repair it is near the Broadway truck stop in Spokane.
Superpro14
Thanks Jim, was considering that, wonder how hard it is to remove the fan blade hub from the motor shaft?
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