Monacoers Daily News

Well for one thing they are about 4” thick, not saying I don’t agree with you. If you want it to fit and made to the OE specs I would use Source. They have the build drawings. I’ve Been thru the whole shooten match a yr or so back on my Windsor. I used Source Eng. They can get you a new one from the same place that built yours if you need it. The builder will not talk to you directly you have to go thru Source. Your part number could still be on your CAC.  

7 hours ago, amphi_sc said:

I'm leaning heavily toward board 6 as the problem.  As I expected, pushing the reset button on the Aquahot did NOT make the BigBoy engage.  However using Frank's video as an example, ignition on and then both red LEDs did light up and the green one at the bottom.  Pushing the test switch for the 12v disconnect did flip the latching solenoid off, however holding it for 3-5 seconds only made that relay click on/off & flash the other led.  I had to use the salesman switch up front to restore 12v power.  After restoring 12v power using the salesman switch the board mounted test switch could turn it off again, but still never fully latch it back on.  The other switch for testing the BigBoy does nothing.... No thunks, no green LEDs. There is 12v to one side of the BB coil, hard to measure the rear coil terminal. Using the boost switch on.the dash will close the BigBoy and gets a 0 to  0.1 volt drop across the BigBoy terminals.  Holding the boost switch down for minute and I can see the house voltage drop and chassis rise until they are essentially the same.  Start the engine and then hold the Boost down for a minute and the chassis voltage drops slightly and the house rises as it accepts a charge. Seems to me that implies the BB itself is okay but the control board isn't controlling it properly.

BTW, after a day's driving and then running the generator for an hour during supper and then shutting it down to quietly watch a couple hours of TV with a residential fridge and also basement freezer running probably a 85% duty cycle maintaining a slightly below 0° measured freezer temp, in the morning the house batteries would measure 12.1 and chassis 12.5 I so don't believe the AGMs are toasted.  No way I know of to measure specific gravity.

To get by for the next 5 months (which includes some on and off boondocking and moving every 3-5 days) I'll Velcro in a temporary switch in the battery compartment to easily connect or disconnect the two banks.  I don't want to be flipping both battery disconnects off while getting tools out every couple days to jump or unjump the BB terminal with the side effects of rebooting or unstable power to the multiplex computer in the process.  Maybe in November Frank or Paul could be able to look at board #6 while the RV is in storage for about a month before the next trip for the Thanksgiving Christmas holidays.

In the last couple of months while driving I did notice the house battery voltage rise to alternator voltage for a while and then drop to 12.6 for a while and then back to 13.2, and then back to 12.6 again for a spell.  I bet that was trying to tell me board #6 was getting flakey, and it has now finally given up.

Fundamentals....

If, after you run down the Batteries to the levels you posted, then plug into AC (or start Genny) and you don't hear the CLUNK... Board #6 is NOT working.  Then, obviously it would not get HOT. When you ran the genny, you should have put your hand and your ear near the Big Boy. If the Big Boy is Humming or making a fuss, then the Big Boy is energized. It should be, after an hour or so, based on the condition of your batteries, HOT to the touch.

I did not pick up you have AGM's.  BUT, the SAME rules apply for AGM's as far as shorted cells.  Shorted cells are MORE of an issue or concern in AGMS...as you CANNOT replenish. 

SO... Simple test. After the AGM's are charged or even partially recharged...then KILL House Switch. Disconnect the Jumpers.  Wait about 10 minutes or so.  Measure the batteries.  ASSUMING you don't have one that is in the 4.X range, then all the batteries should be within 0.1 VDC of each other.  If they vary more than that, then they may not be TOAST...but they are NOT GOOD. 

Now, the ONLY WAY to test them.... Do the Discharge Test.  You were partially there when you measured them. IF they were at 12.1 or so, that is a good drawdown...not perfect.  SO, recharge them...driving or Genny.  When the Magnum says FLOAT....they are recharged.

NOW...  SIMPLE.  USE a little DC juice...  When the batteries drop to around 12.7 or so....then Turn OFF disconnect.  Then pull the Jumpers.  Then wait 10 - 20 minutes. Measure the Voltage.  Look at the CHART.  IF they ARE OK (not Toast), then the voltages should be almost the same....no more than 0,1 VDC difference in the bank.  IF NOT....then they have some internal issues.  Cells are different. IF you tore them apart, you would see the Specific Gravity is different.  ODDS ARE..  one cell is bad.

You can't "SAY" batteries are OK...until you know how they recharge and then use the chart to check SOC. You can't take them to a shop and have them put on a tester. The carbon pile or cheap testers do NOT WORK on Deep Cycle.

You need information and you need to follow the requests so we can help you.  All we know now..., your Chassis Batteries are NOT BEING recharged.  They should be higher than 12.5.  They should be around 12.7 or so. And whether or not you have GOOD AGMs can't be determined until you test them.

Do the above....then we can help...but right now...  I can't do much.  Maybe Frank can...but all I know....is that I don't know if the Big Boy is going CLUNK and buzzing and getting HOT.  If it ain't then Board 6 ain't working... 

13 hours ago, Tom Cherry said:

Richard,

There will be a “file” posted on this. It has been written and is being reviewed.  Bottom line. Southwire or Surge Guard DOES recommend supplemental or upstream or redundant MOV surge protection.  

• So, whether it is Progressive or Surge Guard, the Progressive can and is used as a “no load pedestal tester”.  Much like the unit you make.
• Then, the Progressive is a first line of defense so if there is a surge or a condition that would or could damage the Surge Guard ATS, having it as a sacrificial device is the best.
• In addition from both a cost standpoint as well as functional standpoint, the more expensive ATS might not get damaged.  But the real, non $$ issue, is that there is NOT an Aladdin compliant replacement made for the Surge Guard ATS…so the interface with the Aladdin is totally removed.

This is the first time we have had a manufacturer state that daisy chaining two surge suppressors IS RECOMMENDED.  Therefore we now have a technical recommendation and manufacturer’s recommendation.  

That will be explained in more detail, with links and such….as soon as it is reviewed. Hope this helps.  Once that is in the files, there will be a link to close this out.  I just covered this with Miriam and she now understands….so….please wait until the file is up.

Thanks…

 

ONE MORE TIME>

Southwire/Surge Guard Tech support RECOMMENDS a supplemental MOV Surge Suppressor UPSTREAM.  This is a MONITOR ONLY with MOV idiot lights.  

Putting TWO MOV Surge Suppressors in series does NOT create any funky situations where one or both of the MOV units gets "CONFUSED" if there is a surge

Each MOV Surge Suppressor is still ONLY RATED for the Joules listed. There is NOT an additive condition where the system will have TWICE the JOULES.  

The cheaper, upstream MOV Surge Suppressor is the FIRST LINE of defense. If there is a Surge, then it takes the hit.  Cheaper to replace than the more expensive Surge Guard Surge Suppressor ATS.  AND, since you can't BUY a direct replacement, you protect your OEM or older Surge Guard (the PN never changed....the newer ones do NOT have the interface for the Aladdin.  SO, buy an insurance policy....use an upstream one.

Southwire/Surge Guard recommends a HARD WIRED one.  It is the SAME as the Pedestal Plug in....  They say to put it right before the ATS.  That way, you are also protected from anything funky, like using a neutral, in the Shore to ATS line.  THAT's their position.  BUT, if you want to use a Plug In and then "TEST" the Pedestal, that will work ALSO.  Then the Surge Protected ATS will protect you.  In THEORY, a SPIKE should not occur in the Shore to ATS...but who knows.

Miriam understand this. She will continue to use her Progressive Industries to test the Pedestal.  She will then TURN OFF the breaker, plug in the MH, TURN ON the breaker....wait and monitor the lights....and then...rock on. This is just as good as putting in a hard wired one and she has the Progressive and she also can use it as a PEDESTAL TESTER.  That was APPROVED by the Southwire/Surge Guard Tech support...who actually said he was Mr. Surge..  I am NOT joking... he has been doing this for years and understands....and also "teaches" anyone that calls in...LOL.

Her issue was an upstream "fault" that was NOT detected, due to the simplistic or low end "TRIGGER" signals...during the TESTING phase. BUT, when there was a LOAD, the condition obviously worsened and the Voltage Difference (which is what TRIGGERS on the light(s) got WORSE.  The dim or faint glow on the right side was the result...and Progressive has seen this or had questions about it before.  It is common and unless you had a more sophisticated model (like the HW50C or equivalent....you just rock on.

Southwire/Surge Guard DID say...  If the Green Lights or the Startup FAILS....and the MOV's are DEAD or TOAST. THEY ARE NOT REPAIRABLE.  NOW, a footnote.., he explained in GREAT DETAIL exactly how that happens and started out by telling me how Volta made a battery...and you guys think I GET DEEP...! I met my match.  Bottom line...  The Progressives with replaceable boards are FIELD SERVICABLE.  NONE of the Surge Guards were or will be "FIXABLE".

OK....HOPE that clear the air...and we can let this one rock on or "DIE". Miriam now understands and is happy....and her power is working and she has protection for the ATS. She is going to locate and install the remote panel for her ATS...

Now lets have the benediction and move on...  LOL...

13 hours ago, Ivan K said:

Not an issue, it supplies whatever power for what you have hooked up to each line. If needed, up to its theoretical combined 12.5kw max, 50A each line so around 6kw each. Less load is easier on the windings.

To put it another way.  READ the manual.  You will NOTE that there are TWO Fuel Consumption numbers.  50% and FULL (100%).  What that means, is that the Genny is LOAD dependent.  It ONLY puts out or produces power for what the demand it.  

If you turn on an AC, you will hear the Genny increase (now I have the 8KW and it is a little different...but the concept is the same). SO, the output will be based on the LOAD.  Since the load varies, then the reading or the amps will vary.  As you know, Watts is Amps TIMES Volts.

Nothing is wrong.  If you are new to MHing and an Onan Genny....and this is ONLY FOR THE 220 VAC 10 KW and 12.5 KW...then you need to exercise or load up the Genny for around 30 minutes every few months. Running it at half or above FULL LOAD cleans the brushes.  If you just use it for small loads...like charging the batteries....that only pulls 10 or so amps on LINE line.  You need to look at the MAIN panel and note WHICH breakers are on Line 1 and Line 2.  THEN use them to get around a 25 Amp draw... EACH.  The Magnum and one AC will do that.  So, you need another 10 amp or so (assuming you have on an AC on the other line) to get the load.

This is important....and often comes up with GENNY is erratic.  Keep the brushes clean.  

I got mine through Weller Truck Parts.  Total was $1700 with the pittman arm less $500 for the core exchange.  You'll also need (3) 7/8 x 4" Grade 8 bolts as the Sheppard bolts are too short. 

Steering Box Swap.pdf

12 hours ago, WilPaul35 said:

I closed up slides today to take coach to have new steer tires installed.  When I returned home and parked in same spot, went to put slides out to continue working on IPX issues, street side front slide started to go out and then rear of slide stopped moving after about 8" of travel but front wanted to keep going and create a bind.  Retracted and slide came back in normally. Tried again same issue.  Any suggestion on where to start?  I have had slide in and out 10 time since purchasing coach and no issues previously.

There is a BALANCING CYLINDER on each side...so you can see the TWO cylinders...but hidden is the THIRD one.  The FIX.

With the Slides RETRACTED.  Fill the Reservoir to almost the top.  THAT is WHEN or how you measure it.

Extend the SMALL SLIDE...  BUT, from NOW ON...do this.  

Push and hold the button (either direction) and keep it IN for maybe 3  - 5 seconds after the slide stops.  You want to hear a definitive Pitch or sound difference in the motor.  Don't hold it for more than 5 second.  Now....retract it...do the same.  NOW repeat that cycle ... say 5 TIMES.  You have now purged all the air in the system and the cylinders and the balancing cylinder has PURE FLUID....not some trapped air.  

Next up....do the big slide.  MAKE SURE the motor home is at RIDE HEIGHT and LEVEL.  You MAY need to use some Slide Lube on the parts, underneath...especially the nylon ramps or pad...  The BIG slide is the only one that has them.  

Cycle it several time.  THAT should do it.

NOW...for future use.  Always HOLD IN the button and hear the PITCH change.  ODDS are.. Trapped AIR.  It will SELF PURGE...no need to panic and drain and such.  That is the DESIGN.  Now how MANY cycles...  Who KNOWS?  Depends on the air.

BUT, if you hold it in and hear the pitch change EVERY TIME you extend or retract....they will be fine.  I have an unbelievable number of cycles on mine and all is well.

Let us KNOW.

Thanks Tom.  I will address this after work today.  Might be able to travel in this thing yet.

27 minutes ago, Tom Cherry said:

ONE MORE TIME>

Southwire/Surge Guard Tech support RECOMMENDS a supplemental MOV Surge Suppressor UPSTREAM.  This is a MONITOR ONLY with MOV idiot lights.  

Putting TWO MOV Surge Suppressors in series does NOT create any funky situations where one or both of the MOV units gets "CONFUSED" if there is a surge

Each MOV Surge Suppressor is still ONLY RATED for the Joules listed. There is NOT an additive condition where the system will have TWICE the JOULES.  

The cheaper, upstream MOV Surge Suppressor is the FIRST LINE of defense. If there is a Surge, then it takes the hit.  Cheaper to replace than the more expensive Surge Guard Surge Suppressor ATS.  AND, since you can't BUY a direct replacement, you protect your OEM or older Surge Guard (the PN never changed....the newer ones do NOT have the interface for the Aladdin.  SO, buy an insurance policy....use an upstream one.

Southwire/Surge Guard recommends a HARD WIRED one.  It is the SAME as the Pedestal Plug in....  They say to put it right before the ATS.  That way, you are also protected from anything funky, like using a neutral, in the Shore to ATS line.  THAT's their position.  BUT, if you want to use a Plug In and then "TEST" the Pedestal, that will work ALSO.  Then the Surge Protected ATS will protect you.  In THEORY, a SPIKE should not occur in the Shore to ATS...but who knows.

Miriam understand this. She will continue to use her Progressive Industries to test the Pedestal.  She will then TURN OFF the breaker, plug in the MH, TURN ON the breaker....wait and monitor the lights....and then...rock on. This is just as good as putting in a hard wired one and she has the Progressive and she also can use it as a PEDESTAL TESTER.  That was APPROVED by the Southwire/Surge Guard Tech support...who actually said he was Mr. Surge..  I am NOT joking... he has been doing this for years and understands....and also "teaches" anyone that calls in...LOL.

Her issue was an upstream "fault" that was NOT detected, due to the simplistic or low end "TRIGGER" signals...during the TESTING phase. BUT, when there was a LOAD, the condition obviously worsened and the Voltage Difference (which is what TRIGGERS on the light(s) got WORSE.  The dim or faint glow on the right side was the result...and Progressive has seen this or had questions about it before.  It is common and unless you had a more sophisticated model (like the HW50C or equivalent....you just rock on.

Southwire/Surge Guard DID say...  If the Green Lights or the Startup FAILS....and the MOV's are DEAD or TOAST. THEY ARE NOT REPAIRABLE.  NOW, a footnote.., he explained in GREAT DETAIL exactly how that happens and started out by telling me how Volta made a battery...and you guys think I GET DEEP...! I met my match.  Bottom line...  The Progressives with replaceable boards are FIELD SERVICABLE.  NONE of the Surge Guards were or will be "FIXABLE".

OK....HOPE that clear the air...and we can let this one rock on or "DIE". Miriam now understands and is happy....and her power is working and she has protection for the ATS. She is going to locate and install the remote panel for her ATS...

Now lets have the benediction and move on...  LOL...

Thanks everyone - it was originally advised to not double up and use my PI from pedestal before my ATS/Surgeguard onboard - however - later retracted and suggested to keep the PI upstream from my ATS/SurgeGuard (by Southwire) exactly what I have been doing, so that's what I'm gonna keep on doing.  I may never know (definitively) what caused the lightly illuminated red light (without a power issue or any loss of power), but learned a TON about the system in the process, so I'm good to go...better equipped for (please no) if this ever happens again.

BTW - already ordered my Southwire (SureGuard) remote last night, so will install when it gets here.

PS - ironically, I just saw a post from another camper on FB last night who had the exact same issue....with the same PI (except hers was 30a) - soooo ?

moving on until the next newbie learning lesson that presents itself.

love the help and support from all as I learn!! ✌️✌️

BTW.  When you used the word..  LATCHING...  I did not know you were referring to the BIG BOY or the Salesman (Battery Cutoff) Solenoid.  

The BIG BOY is NOT a latching SOLENOID (these are SOLENOIDS and NOT relays).  It is ONLY "ON" or working when there is a Pulsed or Voltage Controlled signal (OK...when the BOOST is used...it is FULL 12 VDC). 

The Salesman Solenoid or Battery Cutoff is a LATCHING style.  TOTALLY different.  There is NO continuous control signal. When you PUSH the spring loaded BATT CUT OFF switch, it sends a signal to the Solenoid.  Depending on WHICH way you pushed it...  UP OR DOWN, then the Coil "LATCHES IN" the contacts. SO, you have to TURN IT ON or OFF...and there is NO more control circuit voltage to the coil terminals.

The BIG BOY is an MUST HAVE A SIGNAL ( VDC ) to stay energized.  That is why Board 6 only send one when the batteries need to be connected....or when you use as a boost. NO SIGNAL....no COIL ENERGIZED....NO CONTCT CLOSURE.

You may know the difference....but others might not...so all learn...

emailed josh and have not recieved a  answer lake side was a no R&R rv is thinking about it at 200 dollars an hour.

But thanks to all for sugestions.

Hi for thoes looking to just replace your controller go power has one that does two battery banks model# GP-PWM-30-UL it is close to fitting, had remove 3/8" in the height to get it to go in but the mounting holes dont have  anything to screw into. I had to make a face plate and super glued nuts to the back side. Hope this help somewone 

Once my radiator started leaking enough for me to get involved, when i took it out i took it to a radiator repair shop, the radiator was all aluminum an i was told due to electrolysis that it wouldnt be worth the effort as it would just start leaking shortly in another spot. So i too opted to replace mine with the upgraded model.Be sure if you have a rear radiator to do yourself a favor an concider replacing, coolant pump, T-stat, belt an hoses at the same time as access to those items with the radiator in place is difficult.

So James, just what are some of the visuall clues that the slide is dragging? I been noticing when i put out my slide there is now a dark line on my tile where the rollor sits in transit. Its the one closest to the kitchen sink, slide works as good as it always has. I suspect calm before the storm🤦‍♂️

When I pulled my slide in the roller under the cooktop cabinet caught my LVP flooring and pulled it up….it was showing some signs of floor scraping prior to this…..I have new slide rollers on order

When mine started to drag it was the rear of the slide, which stuck out further since I had a Neocorner type cabinet, the bottom was dragging the tile and actually started pulling the fabric insert off the outer lip of the slide.

Back in 2012 I was pulling my slide in, my wife had placed a small carpet in front of the kitchen cabinet and I forgot to move it.  Slide caught the carpet and the slide stopped dead.  Took a lot of force to pull the carpet out and at the point the slide would not move,  Checked fuses etc and concluded it was the motor.  Unfortunately I was headed out of country and couldn't deal with it and my wife was headed south in the coach.  Got on line and found a replacement motor and had it shipped to my wifes friends house where she was headed.  Friends husband installed and that fixed the slide problem.  He put the motor in the basement. 

About 6 months later I finally got a chance to look at the motor,  Took it apart and really couldn't find a problem.  Cleaned it all up, cleaned the grooves in the armature and reset the brushes, put it all back together and tested with a battery charger, it worked.  Not sure what was the problem, maybe one of the brushes had arched and lost contact. 

12 hours ago, amphi_sc said:

I'm leaning heavily toward board 6 as the problem.  As I expected, pushing the reset button on the Aquahot did NOT make the BigBoy engage.  However using Frank's video as an example, ignition on and then both red LEDs did light up and the green one at the bottom.  Pushing the test switch for the 12v disconnect did flip the latching solenoid off, however holding it for 3-5 seconds only made that relay click on/off & flash the other led.  I had to use the salesman switch up front to restore 12v power.  After restoring 12v power using the salesman switch the board mounted test switch could turn it off again, but still never fully latch it back on.  The other switch for testing the BigBoy does nothing.... No thunks, no green LEDs. There is 12v to one side of the BB coil, hard to measure the rear coil terminal. Using the boost switch on.the dash will close the BigBoy and gets a 0 to  0.1 volt drop across the BigBoy terminals.  Holding the boost switch down for minute and I can see the house voltage drop and chassis rise until they are essentially the same.  Start the engine and then hold the Boost down for a minute and the chassis voltage drops slightly and the house rises as it accepts a charge. Seems to me that implies the BB itself is okay but the control board isn't controlling it properly.

BTW, after a day's driving and then running the generator for an hour during supper and then shutting it down to quietly watch a couple hours of TV with a residential fridge and also basement freezer running probably a 85% duty cycle maintaining a slightly below 0° measured freezer temp, in the morning the house batteries would measure 12.1 and chassis 12.5 I so don't believe the AGMs are toasted.  No way I know of to measure specific gravity.

To get by for the next 5 months (which includes some on and off boondocking and moving every 3-5 days) I'll Velcro in a temporary switch in the battery compartment to easily connect or disconnect the two banks.  I don't want to be flipping both battery disconnects off while getting tools out every couple days to jump or unjump the BB terminal with the side effects of rebooting or unstable power to the multiplex computer in the process.  Maybe in November Frank or Paul could be able to look at board #6 while the RV is in storage for about a month before the next trip for the Thanksgiving Christmas holidays.

In the last couple of months while driving I did notice the house battery voltage rise to alternator voltage for a while and then drop to 12.6 for a while and then back to 13.2, and then back to 12.6 again for a spell.  I bet that was trying to tell me board #6 was getting flakey, and it has now finally given up.

The two buttons on that PCB will remotely perform the same functions as the battery boost and salesman switches up front.  Older boards didn't have the 3 second delay to operate the battery disconnect.  So, a monetary press would cycle the function of the salesman switch.  For the dash switches to work but the push buttons on the board not to work could just be dirty contacts on the PCB switch buttons or a failed board component that generates the modulated ground signal to the big boy.  So, not seeing a green light when the battery iso button is pressed is likely a failed board component.

Both terminals on the big boy coil always sit at 12 volts.  The terminal most easy to access is pulsed between 12 volts and ground via the PCB circuit.  That's what will energize the big boy coil since the other terminal is at 12 volts.  When battery boost is pressed, this terminal is grounded and not pulsed.

Good point regarding aluminum radiators. You can save money purchasing another aluminum one but they don’t last long. Be sure to specify that you want a copper core

Just GOOGLE Sanden Air Compressor 4475. They are all over the internet with pricing from $180.00 TO $320.00. Amazon has one for $181.00.

Definitely Replace the drier. Flush the system with Nitrogen. Make sure you add the correct amount of AC(PAK) Compressor Oil. It is not necessary to replace the expansion valve unless you have an issue charging the system. If the expansion valve is bad the system may not take Freon or your Low pressure will be to high or to low and you will have a very high side pressure.

Replacing the AC compressor and Drier and servicing the system is not rocket science. If you are uncomfortable doing it yourself, Take it to a professional. Most shops will get about $1000.00+/_ to do the job parts and labor.

18 hours ago, jacwjames said:

I never heard mine until the thermovalve failed and it went to high speed.  Something sounded different so I got out and walked around the coach and it was loud. 

When the thermovalve failed do you recall what the water temp was when the fan went to high speed? From what I can find, the valve begins to close @185 and is fully closed @199. At that time, all the hydraulic fluid is going to the fan motor. Your valve must have failed in the closed position then. I wonder if my rapid temp increase on a mild incline, is the result of the valve not closing to divert all of the fluid to the fan???  Another thought is when the thermovalve fails, does it "Always" fail in the closed position causing the fan to run at high speed? 

Thanks for sharing your project Mike. New Ideas and solutions a always appreciated. If you have any pictures (now or in the future) of this successful project please add them. The "super glued nuts" seemed particularly interesting. Perhaps you will post an update  down the road as to how these held up.

I feel like monaco added a chase or conduit to each coach, or at least each coach made in Oregon.   My 2000 Windsor had a big one, and my 2005 dynasty has a 1.5" conduit from front to back next to the rails.   Here is a photo of the  one on my dynasty from the front, it's on the passenger side.   I used it for the remco wires when we used to tow a toad with a lube pump.

Sorry for the late reponse.

M100 Shepard steering box leak at vent hole
tomevansfl 18 hours ago