2006 Dynasty - Starter tests positive but won't crank in front nor back.

[Mark Underhill]

Is the shifter lit up and showing "N"?

I had a no start and checked a the items you are and then found there is an unswitched power supply to the Allison controls that, on my coach, went directly to the battery with a fuse located on the wire at the battery.

Wouldn't crank from anywhere as it didn't know if it was in neutral.

[sfmark2020]

Hey Mark Yes the shifter is lit up displaying neutral N

[sfmark2020]

Hey Myron Hey Rick,

I'm on the road. I took the rear board off the coach to test.  I'll get back to you when I have a chance to sit in front of the computer and read your posts. Looks like there's some good info. Essentially I just want to find schematics that match that board and the wire is coming in and out of it. My gut tells me the wacky circuit board up front is sending a signal or not sending a signal something like that to that rear board.  But I just want a grasp of the purpose of the wires going into the circuit board. It looks like Rick is going over that exact subject. I'll read Rick's post, test the old and rockers and report back to you guys.

Rick, to answer your first question I can start the motor only with a remote starter wired directly to the starter in the rear.  There is a lot of information already covered and people are starting to ask the same questions over again. Starter works just fine and engine idles just fine it's just not receiving a trigger signal from the coach irregardless if I have it toggled to the front or the rear.

 

Monarch just sent me all 117 pages of what they have. And there's no schematic of the wiring going into that circuit board, and all those pages. Quite frustrating. The schematics are quite pretty and there is an upload section. I'm noticing there's no 95 Galaxy so I'll upload it onto this website. Might as well spread the love even if the schematics aren't complete.

Here's a photo of the board...

 

[Ivylog]

You did pull and check the left 20 amp fuse?

[sfmark2020]

Yes sir, it was good

[MyronTruex]

Outstanding Rick! That saves a lot of reverse engineering and I will bow out. 

[Florida Hog Man]

Mine was exact symptoms - turned out to be 50 amp relay was weak in rear run box.  Replaced it and problem solved

[grizzly]

In the pic where your thumb is on the iso relay, sometimes if that is corroded inside it won't crank over. At least that was my problem one time. I took it apart and cleaned it up and had no problems after. Also the ngen would hardly kick over but after I cleaned it up, it cranked fine. That was my experience in my Monaco Sig

[Florida Hog Man]

Good to know the field fix

[Georgia Mike]

I have an 06 Dynasty and I seem to have the starting relay in mine. Maybe this will help to see how it’s wired.

 

[sfmark2020]

Wow look at that!! You have exactly what Monaco says I should have, but I don't. I also noticing your relay board has one less relay than mine.  At the very least I think the photo is helpful for keeping my sanity. It's now Sunday I haven't even gotten to the relay board yet. I'll report soon. Thank you

[Guest Ray Davis]

I wonder about all of these wires and where they disappear to?

I

[Paul J A]

Just an F Y I on wire insulation. For some reason  Soy as an ingredient in the insulation . Mice love it. 

[MyronTruex]

Great picture Ray. 

With the small relays on your board they would not handle the current needed for a starter solenoid, thus the larger one shown in your picture.

The OP has the large Omron relays that could easily replace that separate solenoid. 

So I would be taking voltage measurements on the board as switches are flipped. Taking nots is paramount because after the third measurement my mind goes to mush and always has. Throughout my career I carried small note pads in my pocket. A case of them would last me three years I bought a lot of cases for time. Here in Florida it is nearly impossible for me to carry a notepad in my pocket in the hot season. I have found water resistant notepads that are amazing but I do so little troubleshooting directly that they are rarely used. 

Pictures and notes and plastic sheets to keep the annotated pictures always helps.

This one is fun (for me), not the OP. I just wish I could get my hands on it. I love the challenge. 

 

OOPs, said I would bow out. But who can resist.

Edited June 5, 2023 by myrontruex

[sfmark2020]

Hey Bruce I finally have a moment to sit and look at your attachments.  You got it baby!! That is the schematic I needed!!  It apears the 03 is closer to what I have.  Monaco keeps telling me it's an 06 (and sometimes they say 05), but my customer was led to believe it was an 04.  I think I have enough info between everybody to close this down.  I'll head back over there tomorrow, and report back.  Thanks again!!

Myron, I wish I could drag you out to the job site.  Don't bow out yet.  Hopefully I'll have the case cracked by tomorrow evening.  What I honestly wish is every piece of equipment I worked on had such a rock solid set of guys like the Monaco group.  Does anyone know of a similar type of group for Cat Excavators?  I have one of those that is really kicking my butt right now as well.  

Hey David, thanks for the input, on that 50amp resettable fuse, was that the trigger line leading to the starter solenoid?

Edited June 5, 2023 by sfmark2020

[sfmark2020]

Hi Again Rick.  Your post has been printed out.  I finally had a moment to take a deep dive on it.  It was quite specific and insightful.  I'll let you know what happens tomorrow.  Pardon me repeating myself but I figure I might as well answer your questions in one place.  Yes neutral light is on but I am not sure if the signal is making it to the back.  I'll know tomorrow....  Starter works when I use a remote start switch.  Yes the schematics are not so good and don't match that well. But between John's schematic post, an your instructions, (and Monaco),  I have everything drawn out on a single large sheet, and can now start testing properly.  I wrote Monaco and attached John's schematic from his 03.  I really really think Monaco has something lost in translation with their VIN numbers.  I think it is an 04 and not an 06.  I'll attach the same label I sent to Monaco below, also I will reattach Jon's schematic below...but thanks again !!

 

Edited June 6, 2023 by sfmark2020

[Bruce S]

The title of the drawings are a bit misleading as the Rear run plate drawing is actually for a 2004 coach.  The 12V schematic drawing is for a 2002/03 Dynasty, Signature, Executive, Navigator and a Pan? but would be a reference for other years.  Glad they helped.

[sfmark2020]

Hey all, sorry for the late response, this is the first day back in my office.  OK first off the beast is fixed!!! The below YouTube links are video's I made were for my customer that I thought you may enjoy watching.  I can say in all honesty this would not have happened without all the input from Rick and the rest of you with the schematics, suggestions, and phone snapshots.  I took all the information from these posts as well as what Monaco offered via email, drove to a Starbucks and parked it at a table for two hours,  and plugged everything together and drew out all the information I needed on a single sheet of paper.  In the end I had a rock-solid strategy to repair the following...

1) DPDT rocker that had too high resistance on the "front" position

2) super fried rear ignition board that was not permitting ground to all three relays

3) a circuit board up front that wasn't sending a Neutral Safety Switch signal "handshake" to the rear

If you are wondering if this rig got struck by lightning, I am wondering the same.  As you may or may not recall this motorhome has been sitting at a different RV shop for two years.  The guys at the shop are more geared towards interior stuff and they couldn't solve the riddle.  When the RV was to be towed to a different shop, the tow truck driver couldn't grab it due to positioning problems, therefore they called my company. 

So in the end I replaced the front board, got the neutral safety signal back to the rear, pulled the rear board out and unsoldered two of the three relays and made a separate third board with clean reliable grounds, and hard wired the board the board to the preexisting wiring.  The motivation for fabricating a third board was in some of the photo's posted in this sight,  I noticed Monaco, for the later years, started doing the same.  That led me to believe this "three relay" board was a train wreck and I needed to upgrade the design like Monaco did.  Furthermore I could only find used boards out there and vendors were asking like $800 for them.  Essentially $800 for a substandard design that was not reliable.

 

Again thank you guys for all your input.  I wish all I had to work on was Monaco electrical cause then I would have the dream team tech support from this web site.

 

[Petes Knight]

On 6/2/2023 at 10:00 AM, Tom Cherry said:

Pardon the diversion....

Rodent (Timothy Field Mouse) chewing can be costly....  We parked my wife's ATS on our second driveway that ends in a clearing in the woods where we used to store our boat and now our utility trailer.  This was during the driveway repaving project.  It stayed there for several days....  I drove it for a week or after the driveway was cured out....but one day....it was running rough...and I mean ROUGH.  Being an old Carburetor guy....I just used a little more throttle.  We were on the way to Church so I had her follow me and dropped it off at the dealer.  Total of 12 miles.  

Timothy had chewed a harness....and the tech showed me....it was NOT a squirrel as the critter could not get into that narrow crevice.  That eventually lead to a shorted sensor... MAF if I recall.  The MAF sensor was non functional so the injectors were pumping like crazy.  You had to keep the throttle opened....and I did run in a lower gear....to keep it running.  OPPS....that was the beginning of a very expensive issue.  They replaced the sensor and corrected the or fixed the wiring (had to pull some stuff out but not replace the harness).  Then several days later....the CHECK ENGINE light came back on.  The two Catalytic Converters were mounted on the exhaust manifold (V6).  They were fuel soaked....beyond belief.  Two NEW Cat Converters were needed.  Total bill was over $5K....  The dealer sort of worked on it and my extended warranty and GM assisted....DODGED A BULLETT.....but I DID find solace that perhaps Timothy might not have survived......READ ON....  Do NOT discount the amount of damage that a rodent can do.  I keep fresh mice/rat baits in all my bays and one in the galley when in storage....

OK.....as the PAST Director of Environmental......this is a bit long....but my mice incident DID remind me of a "Court Case of Consequence".  If you ever wondered about reading a Prop 65 Warning on a package, it is a requirement if you ship or sell products into California.  It alerts the consumer that there is a KNOW carcinogen (may not be harmful....like the warning NOT to remove and swallow battery electrolyte that is in many new car owner's manuals....

As the Director of Environmental for a major (once upon a time) tool company, I had to "clean up an oversight" and pay retribution to the plaintiff for failing to have the proper warnings on a package.  We were a major soldering iron and station company.  We KNEW to label our solder, if it contained lead....and the Prop 65 warning was OK.  BUT, a "well intentioned" Ex Para Legal made a career of walking around stores and such and checking labels. He determined that a sponge on a soldering station COULD, eventually, become contaminated with lead if the operator used lead solder or desoldered joints that contained such. I won't get into the particulars that my Corporate legal team and my own research turned up....but an individual can file a notice with the CA Environmental folks and the Attorney General alledgeing that a product is not properly labeled and if they rule in favor, then the whistleblower gets a percentage of the fine.

Google Prop 65.  Therefore all wire, unless the coloring pigmentation is certified as LEAD FREE, must have a CA Prop 65 warning if sold or shipped there...from the New England Journal of Medicine....  This was what the "attorneys" used as a teaching tool....

In December, 1991, a 46-year-old Ohio man was discovered to have lead intoxication. His blood lead level was 50 micrograms/dl, with symptoms of numbness of the fingers and palms, tinnitus, and possible cognitive impairment. Usual sources of adult lead intoxication could not be found. The mystery was solved when the man (a microwave technician at a television station) revealed that for 20 years he had habitually chewed on bits of plastic insulation that he stripped from the ends of electrical wires. The colored wire coatings were tested and found to contain 10 to 39 mg of lead per gram.

The REST of the story was that the station, as many companies do, require that if you strip wire on a job, you collect it in a container (since you might be in an office)....OR, for very small gauge wire, it was SUSPECTED, that he used his teeth as the stripper......YES....this did happen....

SO, if you use replacement wires or fuel lines and expect rodent infestation.....purchase the ones that have a Prop 65 warning and the mice will be punished....

I have heard about people chewing on plastic from electric lines….. very bad…..! I saw a guy doing it and told him that story and he was shocked……