2005 Dynasty 400 ISL “Engine” Brake issue

[Tom Cherry]

Pull the prints.  The “EXHAST BRAKE” and I THINK you have the VGT…which is on the turbine is the “controller”.  It is integrated with the ECM.  You set the level or the circuit for which of the “head’s” valves are closed.  The ECM will control the functioning.  The Plain Jane ISL’s only had the VGT.  But the Dynasty snd above had the supplemental Jscob’s Brake intake configuration.  The OTR Shop might need the prints.  The SN of the engine tells whether the engine is s simple VGT or a Supplemental Jake Brake.  The ECM will snitch on it’s self if there is a problem.  But if there is a circuit issue, then the maze and complexity of the interaction of the Jake, which is “triggered” by the Exhaust VGT will be suspect.

Let us know how it comes out.  The prints have the pathway to the Jake system.  FWIW, most ISL’s can be retrofitted….It is a “bolt on” and you add to the head…..in place.  You don’t pull the head.  The REAL complexity comes when you have to install the Jake switch’s relays or whatever and THEN….reprogram the ECM.  Sometimes there is a Cummins download….I think…or maybe you just reconfigure the parameters…but one has to be KNOWLEDGEABLE otherwise…..UGLY!

[96 EVO]

This is the problem with adding to existing threads!

Nobody knows what coach, what member, or what issue!

It's unlikely RD's Dynasty came with an exhaust brake!

Edited Monday at 12:26 AM by 96 EVO

[Tom Cherry]

1 hour ago, 96 EVO said:

This is the problem with adding to existing threads!

Nobody knows what coach, what member, or what issue!

It's unlikely RD's Dynasty came with an exhaust brake!

Ben,

Time to do more research. Check the 2005 Dynasty sales brochure.  TWO STAGE JACOBS BRAKE.  That way….to at least 2009.  The “Title” was edited for a 2005 Dynasty….could be revised for subsequent years….the last two posts were from 2005 owners.

This really “makes the case” for updates or continuing to post to older topics…as the details and discussion is already “out there”….otherwise….it would be just a repeat. Repeating old “comments” is one item that gets feedback….in that it is just old stuff….rehashed….sometimes incorrectly.

The “mission” of the site was to have specific, searchable topics….Hope this clears it up for you.

Thanks for the post as it allows us to comment and “educate” to keep the site more efficient and productive.

 

[RIPPPA]

2 hours ago, Tom Cherry said:

Pull the prints.  The “EXHAST BRAKE” and I THINK you have the VGT…which is on the turbine is the “controller”.  It is integrated with the ECM.  You set the level or the circuit for which of the “head’s” valves are closed.  The ECM will control the functioning.  The Plain Jane ISL’s only had the VGT.  But the Dynasty snd above had the supplemental Jscob’s Brake intake configuration.  The OTR Shop might need the prints.  The SN of the engine tells whether the engine is s simple VGT or a Supplemental Jake Brake.  The ECM will snitch on it’s self if there is a problem.  But if there is a circuit issue, then the maze and complexity of the interaction of the Jake, which is “triggered” by the Exhaust VGT will be suspect.

Let us know how it comes out.  The prints have the pathway to the Jake system.  FWIW, most ISL’s can be retrofitted….It is a “bolt on” and you add to the head…..in place.  You don’t pull the head.  The REAL complexity comes when you have to install the Jake switch’s relays or whatever and THEN….reprogram the ECM.  Sometimes there is a Cummins download….I think…or maybe you just reconfigure the parameters…but one has to be KNOWLEDGEABLE otherwise…..UGLY!

Thanks Tom, I will print and save this for when I get into it again. I will say this, when I purchased to coach in July 2021 the Jake didn’t work. I threw a rod in Oct 2021 and put a salvage engine in it. We found corroded wires in the harness in the engine compartment and after that the transmission will downshift when the engine brake switch is turned on but no engine break. Prior to the corroded wire repairs nothing happen when you turned the engine brake on. I have heard that some coaches left the factory without the engine break working. I know someone that took his 2005 Dynasty to Rev and they reconfigured some wires under the switch and reprogrammed the ecm to get his to work. The closest REV is 11 hrs from me so I haven’t gone that route yet but may have to in the end. 
Thanks Tim 

2005 Dynasty Platinum lll

On 7/29/2023 at 9:49 AM, Guest Ray Davis said:

I hope the OP comes back because even tho most of us will never replace an engine these topics are incredibly interesting.  If he doesn't know all the answers to our questions, that's okay, we learn a lot anyway.  We'll figure it out.  There are some really smart guys on here, not me but they're here reading this.  Bill Rogers brings up the ECM, I didn't think about it,  I supposed he was using his original ECM, but maybe not what if the used engine had an ECM on it and that's in the RV?    It's not like the old shade tree days when they used a chain hoist and shade tree to pull the motor out of the farm truck and dropped in another one.  There's a lot to consider about these electronic marvels of today.

Sorry to be year later reading this. We did reused the existing ecm. We tried the salvage ecm but but had some issues with it. 

[Moparlee]

I have an 04 Dynasty. I only had low on my jakes. I found a two wire connector on the engine that was never plugged in at the factory. Connector is on the passenger side of the engine. 

 

Lee

[Tom Cherry]

8 minutes ago, Moparlee said:

I have an 04 Dynasty. I only had low on my jakes. I found a two wire connector on the engine that was never plugged in at the factory. Connector is on the passenger side of the engine. 

 

Lee

GOING out on a limb…but many knowledgeable members plus all the research….  There is not a 2004 Dynasty Sales Brochure online….nor is there is  an Imperial. We know that they were twins….even though, maybe the HR was an Elkhart coach.  BUT the engines were the same.

BUT….there is a 2003 Imperial”s Sales Brochure ….AND it lists a “2 Stage Jacobs Brake” for the ISL.

Yours had it.  Assembler was distracted….can’t blame a Smartphone.

This is great….all learn

[RIPPPA]

21 minutes ago, Tom Cherry said:

GOING out on a limb…but many knowledgeable members plus all the research….  There is not a 2004 Dynasty Sales Brochure online….nor is there is  an Imperial. We know that they were twins….even though, maybe the HR was an Elkhart coach.  BUT the engines were the same.

BUT….there is a 2003 Imperial”s Sales Brochure ….AND it lists a “2 Stage Jacobs Brake” for the ISL.

Yours had it.  Assembler was distracted….can’t blame a Smartphone.

This is great….all learn

I know I have a 2 stage Jake. I have tested both of the connections on the valve covers and I only have voltage to one of them. 

[Tom Cherry]

2 hours ago, RIPPPA said:

I know I have a 2 stage Jake. I have tested both of the connections on the valve covers and I only have voltage to one of them. 

Prints and following the circuit for the “missing” stage is the only solution, HOWVER….the “what turns on or supplies” the voltage signal needs to be narrowed down to a “control relay” and then..Is it a “chassi” signal or an ECM or an “interaction” between both.

Need to fully trace the leads on the relay or whatever is suppose to supply 12 VDC.  Need a good tech with both chassis conventional wiring and ECM savvy.

[Frank McElroy]

19 hours ago, Tom Cherry said:

Prints and following the circuit for the “missing” stage is the only solution, HOWVER….the “what turns on or supplies” the voltage signal needs to be narrowed down to a “control relay” and then..Is it a “chassis” signal or an ECM or an “interaction” between both.

Need to fully trace the leads on the relay or whatever is suppose to supply 12 VDC.  Need a good tech with both chassis conventional wiring and ECM savvy.

If one of the Jake brake stages are working, then it's important to know if the engine ECM is seeing the signal from the other Jake brake Hi/Low dash switch setting.  The Cummins Insite software will tell the tech if the engine ECM is getting the correct command signals.  If it is, then the problem is between the engine ECM and the Jake brake solenoid or an oil leak in the Jake brake mechanism.  If the Engine ECM is not getting the proper signal, then the issue is in the coach wiring, armrest switch or optional engine brake foot switch.

 

[Richard H.]

I have not read every response 3-4 years but my friend had same  issue along with cruise control inoperative.  He took it to Rev in Oregon and they said it was an ECU issue and that is Cummins and there is a licensing issue.  Cummins was just down the street.

‘Cummins   ended up finding the retired guy that worked on the ECU programming in 2005 and brought him in. Six weeks| there and about $5k later and it was fixed.

 

[RIPPPA]

7 hours ago, Richard H. said:

I have not read every response 3-4 years but my friend had same  issue along with cruise control inoperative.  He took it to Rev in Oregon and they said it was an ECU issue and that is Cummins and there is a licensing issue.  Cummins was just down the street.

‘Cummins   ended up finding the retired guy that worked on the ECU programming in 2005 and brought him in. Six weeks| there and about $5k later and it was fixed.

 

I am aware of a guy on 1st Monaco Facebook page that Rev was able to get his ‘05 Dynasty Jake working. I just haven’t been interested yet in the 32 hour, 2034 mile trek to Coburg, Oregon yet. I did speak to Rev in Illinois last fall about it and they said they would look at it but that’s still 11 hours one way with little assurance of any success. I guess I’ll give it one more shot in Oct when I get the coach back home from Colorado then I guess I’ll be off to Illinois or Oregon next. 
thanks for your input. 

20 hours ago, Frank McElroy said:

If one of the Jake brake stages are working, then it's important to know if the engine ECM is seeing the signal from the other Jake brake Hi/Low dash switch setting.  The Cummins Insite software will tell the tech if the engine ECM is getting the correct command signals.  If it is, then the problem is between the engine ECM and the Jake brake solenoid or an oil leak in the Jake brake mechanism.  If the Engine ECM is not getting the proper signal, then the issue is in the coach wiring, armrest switch or optional engine brake foot switch.

 

Thanks. I’ll save this for my next attempt. 

[RVerBob]

Frank mentioned the optional jake peddle, I have that pedal and can't seem to get it to work.

All eng. brake switches work, not sure I'm operating pedal properly ( coach is new to me )

[MHRookie]

On 9/26/2024 at 8:04 AM, RVerBob said:

Frank mentioned the optional jake peddle, I have that pedal and can't seem to get it to work.

All eng. brake switches work, not sure I'm operating pedal properly ( coach is new to me )

Inside the pedal is a micro switch.  Over the years it wears out.  Take pedal apart and ohm test it when depressing the switch.  You can get replacements on eBay.

[RVerBob]

Thank you, will check that out, do you know how its wired.

I have the two rocker switches ( ENG. Brake,and HI/LO) is that pedal wired to those switches.

Are there any fuses or relays I can look for as well ?

[Frank McElroy]

6 minutes ago, RVerBob said:

Thank you, will check that out, do you know how its wired.

I have the two rocker switches ( ENG. Brake,and HI/LO) is that pedal wired to those switches.

Are there any fuses or relays I can look for as well ?

It's wired in parallel to the engine brake switch.  Here is a screenshot of the circuit.

[RVerBob]

Thanks Frank, where can I get a copy of that print ?

[Frank McElroy]

40 minutes ago, RVerBob said:

Thanks Frank, where can I get a copy of that print ?

See page 72.

 

[RVerBob]

Thank you Frank

[John Van Hengel]

Just finished reading through this thread.
I am on my second coach. My first a 1995 with Cummins C8.3l had a Pacbrake.
When switched on and throttle released would engage and downshift to 2nd. It took about 3 seconds to build up pressure.
The effect was noticeable but mellow.
My current coach a 2006 has a Cummins ISX with a dual stage Jake brake.
It engages the same way. However it is like a kick in the pants. It almost throws me into my seat belt shoulder strap.
It is accompanied by that "braap" sound the big rigs make when theirs are engaged. 

Hope this helps.  

[Paul J A]

On 9/23/2024 at 8:06 AM, Tom Cherry said:

GOING out on a limb…but many knowledgeable members plus all the research….  There is not a 2004 Dynasty Sales Brochure online….nor is there is  an Imperial. We know that they were twins….even though, maybe the HR was an Elkhart coach.  BUT the engines were the same.

BUT….there is a 2003 Imperial”s Sales Brochure ….AND it lists a “2 Stage Jacobs Brake” for the ISL.

Yours had it.  Assembler was distracted….can’t blame a Smartphone.

This is great….all learn

The 2003 Imperial Sales Brochure lists a, " Jacobs Engine Brake."

https://www.monacocoach.com/resources/media/user/1469133967_brc_pdf.pdf  Page --- 8

The  2003 Monaco Dynasty Sales Brochure lists a, " Two Stage Jacobs Engine Brake."

https://www.monacocoach.com/resources/media/user/1469133967_brc_pdf.pdf      Page ---10

Edited 29 minutes ago by Paul J A