Going HIGH TECH….2007 Dynasty. New Inverter Charger and Lithiums and such. Questions??” and Help Needed.

[waterskier_1]

Here is a crude "red-lined" drawing for the lower end coaches (Knight, Dip, etc) that do not have a separate Inverter Sub-Panel.  I tried to draw the cables to show that not physical change in component location was required, except for the additional Mini-Inverter Breaker Panel (Box).  This particular client had already replaced his old inverter with a Victron MultiPlus II (12-volt) and had added a bunch of LiFePO4 batteries, and wanted to run the A/Cs off the inverter.  

I don't really like this approach, since there is no way that the 3000 VA (2400 Watt) MultiPlus can supply the 12,000 Watts the 50 Amp service is capable of.  He knew and accepted the risks.  It seem to be working for his specific needs.

With creating a complete design (that's why I asked for a picture in my original post), it is possible with appropriate 24 volt or 48 volt inverters, with enough battery or solar power, you can provide for a usable all electric coach, but not likely 12, 500 watts - which is rarely used.

Remember - this is for a coach without the Inverter Sub-Panel.  I believe the OP has an Inverter Sub-Panel, so the wiring will be different.

  -Rick N.

 

 

Just now, Jim Stringer said:

@waterskier_1I am sure you seem to have alot of experience in this....but I know how my coach was wired and thats how I showed. If my inverter was not on my microwave and a couple other items would not power on regardless if the coach had power i.e. generator or shore power. attached is a picture of my main breaker box which has a circuit that was fed from the inverter.

IMG_1868.HEIC 867.34 kB · 1 download

I'm not sure we are communicating.  That Inverter Circuit Breaker in your Main Power Panel supplies power TO the Inverter ONLY.  There is no return from the Inverter Output to the Main Power Panel as you show in your drawing.  The Inverter Output is wired directly to the microwave on one output and the outlets on the other.  

I suspect you did the wiring correctly (except for the required circuit breakers for each circuit - microwave and outlets) or the electrical system would not be functioning.  What I am taking exception to is the drawings.  Oh, I also confused your response with the response from another poster who put the two inverters (in Red Boxes) at the input to where the old inverter was, and connected the output from those inverters to the outputs from the old inverter, which would only power the microwave and outlets, not the A/Cs and other circuits powered by the Main Power Panel.

  -Rick N.

[Jim Stringer]

@waterskier_1You are correct I misspoke...the Main breaker line goes to inverter then the line out of inverter goes to the circuit....i just took out the inverter and replaced with a double outlet and continued the path to the circuit. the 30 amp breaker is now for the microwave and whatever else is on that circuit. Either way I have two 6500w inverters supplying my entire system. I can run both ac's and everything else as if I was on shore power.

 

[waterskier_1]

46 minutes ago, Jim Stringer said:

@waterskier_1You are correct I misspoke...the Main breaker line goes to inverter then the line out of inverter goes to the circuit....i just took out the inverter and replaced with a double outlet and continued the path to the circuit. the 30 amp breaker is now for the microwave and whatever else is on that circuit. Either way I have two 6500w inverters supplying my entire system. I can run both ac's and everything else as if I was on shore power.

 

You say you replaced the inverter with a double outlet.  I'm not sure I understand.  Does this mean you put plugs on the microwave circuit and the outlets circuit, and plugged those into a duplex outlet?  

In any case, that would not meet NEC, and before Tom Cherry gets all riled up, YES, I know that coaches are not required to meet NEC.  But most do comply with the 110 VAC requirement, and connecting 12 or 14 gauge wires from the microwave circuit/outlet circuit to a 30 Amp breaker is not good practice.  You could change the 30 Amp breaker to what is required based upon the MINIMUM wire size (either 20 Amp if 12 gauge or 15 Amp for 14 gauge wires.   

Instead of the double outlet, I recommend a mini-Circuit Breaker box, with two circuit breakers, one for each circuit as was the case before the inverter was removed (granted those breakers were built into the inverter) of appropriate size.  

It's your coach, and you assume the risk of loss if there is a fire, and if it can be traceable back to incorrect breaker size for the wire size, you may void your policy.  

I TRY to comply with good and industry accepted building practices, especially when designing for someone else.

  -Rick N

[John C]

6 minutes ago, waterskier_1 said:

You say you replaced the inverter with a double outlet.  I'm not sure I understand.  Does this mean you put plugs on the microwave circuit and the outlets circuit, and plugged those into a duplex outlet?  

In any case, that would not meet NEC, and before Tom Cherry gets all riled up, YES, I know that coaches are not required to meet NEC.  But most do comply with the 110 VAC requirement, and connecting 12 or 14 gauge wires from the microwave circuit/outlet circuit to a 30 Amp breaker is not good practice.  You could change the 30 Amp breaker to what is required based upon the MINIMUM wire size (either 20 Amp if 12 gauge or 15 Amp for 14 gauge wires.   

Instead of the double outlet, I recommend a mini-Circuit Breaker box, with two circuit breakers, one for each circuit as was the case before the inverter was removed (granted those breakers were built into the inverter) of appropriate size.  

It's your coach, and you assume the risk of loss if there is a fire, and if it can be traceable back to incorrect breaker size for the wire size, you may void your policy.  

I TRY to comply with good and industry accepted building practices, especially when designing for someone else.

  -Rick N

So if I just disconnect the old inverter and cap the wire , the Microwave won't work?

I thought if  you have 50AMP to the main panel(regardless from Genset/shore power or two inverters), everything should work.

Please let me know what I am missing here.

Thank you.

[Tom Cherry]

1 hour ago, waterskier_1 said:

You say you replaced the inverter with a double outlet.  I'm not sure I understand.  Does this mean you put plugs on the microwave circuit and the outlets circuit, and plugged those into a duplex outlet?  

In any case, that would not meet NEC, and before Tom Cherry gets all riled up, YES, I know that coaches are not required to meet NEC.  But most do comply with the 110 VAC requirement, and connecting 12 or 14 gauge wires from the microwave circuit/outlet circuit to a 30 Amp breaker is not good practice.  You could change the 30 Amp breaker to what is required based upon the MINIMUM wire size (either 20 Amp if 12 gauge or 15 Amp for 14 gauge wires.   

Instead of the double outlet, I recommend a mini-Circuit Breaker box, with two circuit breakers, one for each circuit as was the case before the inverter was removed (granted those breakers were built into the inverter) of appropriate size.  

It's your coach, and you assume the risk of loss if there is a fire, and if it can be traceable back to incorrect breaker size for the wire size, you may void your policy.  

I TRY to comply with good and industry accepted building practices, especially when designing for someone else.

  -Rick N

Rick, John and Jim.  
Nope, I try to follow code…and use NEC, but have been known to use common sense.

I shied away from this discussion and John is asking questions and Jim’s rig is totally different and what he did is entirely different. Jim has a Neptune.  He does NOT have the subpanel (check the print that I posted a day or so ago).

John,

From a “Staff” or forum standpoint, Frank and I have just discussed this and made a decision.  Please take the design and brainstorming offline and have a one on one with Jim, if he is willing.  It is very confusing.  Frank has given input as to how it should be done to utilize your basic setup with your REQUIRED subpanel.  That needs to be paramount, otherwise, you will be at risk from an electrical standpoint. Our “charter” is not to allow posts or schematics or recommendations that are unsafe or not electrically correct….otherwise, another member may be at risk if they use them.

It may not be practical to use the existing 24 VDC inverter that you have….nor  will it have, we think, the capacity nor the internal circuit to replace the Magnum.  You have a Dual IN and Dual OUT system.  The subpanel is actually subdivided into Line 1 and Line 2 and has a two 30 amp breakers to protect the buss. THAT is NEC for the MH.

Jim is the best resource, that is contributing, and fully understands, What you have indicated you want to accomplish is not, we think, technically feasible nor safe nor recommended.

Early on, it was requested that you draw up a complete schematic using the Monaco print for your MH as a “template”.  That is still the recommendation….and is now mandatory.

Rick is also well versed in the older systems as well as safe practices and he can is an excellent resource if you and Jim need ideas or want an opinion.

But, until you corroborate with Jim and/or Rick and get a formal design, the back and forth, online is no longer allowed.

Thanks for understanding.  I am NOT the lithium expert….but I fully understand the “wiring” side and if you have a design, I can critique it….perhaps Frank can also.

We need table this online discussion 

Good Luck….looking forward to the resolution…