2007 Dynasty No START - Voltage to Big Boy zero - UPDATE - Issue was AIR IN FUEL FILTERS.

[Tom Cherry]

16 minutes ago, John C said:

Well, the reason is clear, Big Boy failed me even I rebuild it one month ago and I didn't noticed that, that caused irreversible damage to the chassis battery.

For new chassis battery, are you talking about this one?
https://www.interstatebatteries.com/products/31-mhd

I will buy two of those today tomorrow.

I am done with Big Boy and will change it with DC-DC charge with Lithium  battery. On my lithium & solar project I will definitely need your guys guidance on that.

Thank you!

 

Totally up to you.  The fact that you were on 20 amp and don’t know the electrolyte level of your present House bank could have been the real issue.

You started a topic in February on how to convert and what was needed.  That then was extended to over six (6 ) pages….over 137 replies.

Please do not start a new topic.  You can post an “UPDATE…Ready to start and now have some new questions” to resurrect it and then proceed from there.  Otherwise many will post duplicates.  Thanks, in advance, for understanding…..

Use the original….here.

 

[John C]

Update:

Got two MHD-950 Interstate brand new and fully charged batteries (they took my two 1000CCA Centennial batteries).

Try again still the same thing!!!

Received the engine code reader, tried it on, got three message. (see attached),

Clear those 3 messages.

Tried starting again, now I only have one message which is the first one.

Jim at Irv2 reminded me that could be a fuel filter issue. I just changed the fuel filter without filling the filter. I will buy some diesel and fill the filter and see what happens.

 

Looks like I got two problems, first is the chassis battery didn't get charged and the air in the fuel filter.

After I fully charged the batteries, the air fuel filter still prevented me from starting the coach.

Now I looked back, is it possible that my old batteries is still OK after charging? is it possible the air caused the voltage drop after even the batteries is OK? Guess it don't matter now since I already give those two to Interstate.

I will get diesel and fill the fuel filter and hopefully that is it.

To be continued...

 

[John C]

 

I actually got two problems, first one is the battery & BB. the 2nd is I changed the two fuel filterer a few days ago and I didn't fill the two filters with fuel all the way(I just pull the fuel from the old filters to the new filters). That introduce the air into the fuel line.

The solutions is use the two air bleeding screws on top of the 2nd filter housing and bleed the air out.

After that I can start the engine.

[Frank McElroy]

33 minutes ago, John C said:

 

I actually got two problems, first one is the battery & BB. the 2nd is I changed the two fuel filterer a few days ago and I didn't fill the two filters with fuel all the way(I just pull the fuel from the old filters to the new filters). That introduce the air into the fuel line.

The solutions is use the two air bleeding screws on top of the 2nd filter housing and bleed the air out.

After that I can start the engine.

Using fuel from your old filters to fill new filters is not a good practice.  Hopefully you at least plugged the center of the filter and only filled into the outside filter holes.  Best practice is to fill filters with fresh diesel with the center opening plugged.  

[John C]

26 minutes ago, Frank McElroy said:

Using fuel from your old filters to fill new filters is not a good practice.  Hopefully you at least plugged the center of the filter and only filled into the outside filter holes.  Best practice is to fill filters with fresh diesel with the center opening plugged.  

Agreed.

At that time I didn't have any fuel on hand and was in a hurry to finish it. Should have just taken the time and bought a diesel container and diesel.

Now I definitely learned my lesson - only in a hard way.

Edited June 17 by John C

[Frank McElroy]

Your other option would have been to change one filter at a time without prefilling them.  On your coach, you have an electronic lift pump that will run for about 60 seconds then shut off, you then cycle the key to restart the pump.  I found with dry filters, it takes about 25-30 cycles per filter to fill them via the lift pump.  That's why most folks prefill their filters.  Actually, the critical filter to prefill with the center hole plugged is the secondary filter (filter without the water drain port).  If, you buy high quality secondary filters, they will come with a center plastic plug for this reason. 

[John C]

11 minutes ago, Frank McElroy said:

Your other option would have been to change one filter at a time without prefilling them.  On your coach, you have an electronic lift pump that will run for about 60 seconds then shut off, you then cycle the key to restart the pump.  I found with dry filters, it takes about 25-30 cycles per filter to fill them via the lift pump.  That's why most folks prefill their filters.  Actually, the critical filter to prefill with the center hole plugged is the secondary filter (filter without the water drain port).  If, you buy high quality secondary filters, they will come with a center plastic plug for this reason. 

My lift pump only runs for 30 second before it stop, I did tried many many cycles, no sure about 30 but definitely over 20 and it didn't work, it was a very frustrating experience because at the time worried about it could be other engine problem.

When I used the two screws to bleed the air out, it took more about 20 lift pump cycles.

Yes, always prefill the filters.

[Ivan K]

Interesting read, I recently helped a friend stranded on side of the road with his National and ISL. Got him new filters, he changed them dry, no time to mess with refilling in heavy rain and traffic. I had him to run the lift pump cycle 5 times and try to start. It started right away no problem. I never take a chance at filling my filters but have the Parker pump to bleed them instead.

[96 EVO]

I 'borrowed' one of the wife's baking funnels, that fits into one of the secondary filters outer holes 👍!

Anyone wondering, No, I didn't return it to the kitchen drawer 😁!

[Tom Cherry]

John, 

Glad you got it started.  The easy way, assuming you have diesel fuel...there is small siphon pump that you can buy on Amazon.  I have one...and NOW need to carry it.  I used the old fashioned method....SUCK on the line and then drop before the fuel gets too High.  Guess I was raised on the farm and we had to siphon fuel.  That will give you a supply of fuel and you do NOT WANT to carry Diesel Fuel.  The OTHER TRICK, better than using USED DIESEL is to prefill with ATF.  That is done at some shops.  NOT GOOD.  Use the METHOD in your manual.

NOW...that you have the engine running, you can then decide on what to do about your Big Boy. You have NOW...all the information and testing procedures to determine WHAT is going on.  You also have Paul Whittle and Frank McElroy as sources to rebuilt Board #6.  PERSONALLY....based on all the stuff you have going on and then the major project to "Figure OUT what you want to do....and research it...for the HIGH TECH UPDATE to Lithium...", 

The BEST advice....troubleshoot your Big Boy.  Odds are....since you cleaned it...  it is working.  NOW trouble shoot the Board #6.  If it is defective, the Frank and Paul can repair it for a nominal fee...  THEN get that done.  They turn them around in less than a few days.

THEN, you have the OEM system working.  You don't have to do all the Rube Goldberg stuff that you tried or that I and OTHERS told you.  GET IT FIXED, for a small amount.  USE THE MH and then, once you get past the AIR issue...you can concentrate on HIGH TECH UPGRADE.

That will get something off your plate and you obviously have a lot on it.

Good Luck and please consider this unsolicited advice...Folks have suffered a lot from doing too much and it really stresses you out. Not having to worry about your charging....will be one less issue and you are halfway there now.

From what you said...you have NOT done the required maintenance (electrolyte filling) on the House. That would be a MAJOR Priority to at least get some more time out of your House and use the MH...then tackle the BIG ONE.  In reality, the BIG BOY, will still work and you can install the DC to DC charger and gut you system  later on. For your convenience as well as help.  READ THIS.  Working HOUSE are better than NON WORKING while you put together your plans for upgrades.  You need to focus on your HOUSE batteries for an hour or so and get things IN EQUILIBRIUM on the charging system....

This topic "ALMOST" met the requirements for a NEW issue or topic......and it morphed into fuel and engine issues.  However, The title has been EDITED to reflect that.  SO, any other posts here should pertain the the BIG BOY and not launch into a new topic.  Thanks for understanding why as this helps others when they search.

 

 

[Tom Cherry]

24 minutes ago, 96 EVO said:

I 'borrowed' one of the wife's baking funnels, that fits into one of the secondary filters outer holes 👍!

Anyone wondering, No, I didn't return it to the kitchen drawer 😁!

I just DON'T TELL.  I clean the utensils with something like "Acetone" and wash in Dawn.  They are CLEAN and SANITIZED and she never knows... The DAWN takes away smells from having Pyrex cups that were filled with diesel fuel or carburetor cleaner.  They are BRIGHT and SHINY when I return them.  NO...THIS IS NOT a flippant thought....I DO IT...  Hot water and Dawn will clean away GREASE. 

We used to use it "Commercially" as a degreaser for certain Rinse waters that were ONLY oil or perhaps a bit "petroleum" contaminated.  City WWT plants often dump in a gallon or two.  Frank McElroy can explain the technology, but the Dawn breaks down the oil or grease bonds (assuming in suspension) and the level probes (600 VAC) like in our Tanks don't get INSULATED or get "CRAPPED UP"...  

Beats pumping out a tank and then scrubbing down all the probes...some of which were in a 6 stack bundle...separated with spacers and 15 feet long...

[John C]

2 hours ago, Ivan K said:

Interesting read, I recently helped a friend stranded on side of the road with his National and ISL. Got him new filters, he changed them dry, no time to mess with refilling in heavy rain and traffic. I had him to run the lift pump cycle 5 times and try to start. It started right away no problem. I never take a chance at filling my filters but have the Parker pump to bleed them instead.

I guess every coach is different...

1 hour ago, Tom Cherry said:

John, 

Glad you got it started.  The easy way, assuming you have diesel fuel...there is small siphon pump that you can buy on Amazon.  I have one...and NOW need to carry it.  I used the old fashioned method....SUCK on the line and then drop before the fuel gets too High.  Guess I was raised on the farm and we had to siphon fuel.  That will give you a supply of fuel and you do NOT WANT to carry Diesel Fuel.  The OTHER TRICK, better than using USED DIESEL is to prefill with ATF.  That is done at some shops.  NOT GOOD.  Use the METHOD in your manual.

NOW...that you have the engine running, you can then decide on what to do about your Big Boy. You have NOW...all the information and testing procedures to determine WHAT is going on.  You also have Paul Whittle and Frank McElroy as sources to rebuilt Board #6.  PERSONALLY....based on all the stuff you have going on and then the major project to "Figure OUT what you want to do....and research it...for the HIGH TECH UPDATE to Lithium...", 

The BEST advice....troubleshoot your Big Boy.  Odds are....since you cleaned it...  it is working.  NOW trouble shoot the Board #6.  If it is defective, the Frank and Paul can repair it for a nominal fee...  THEN get that done.  They turn them around in less than a few days.

THEN, you have the OEM system working.  You don't have to do all the Rube Goldberg stuff that you tried or that I and OTHERS told you.  GET IT FIXED, for a small amount.  USE THE MH and then, once you get past the AIR issue...you can concentrate on HIGH TECH UPGRADE.

That will get something off your plate and you obviously have a lot on it.

Good Luck and please consider this unsolicited advice...Folks have suffered a lot from doing too much and it really stresses you out. Not having to worry about your charging....will be one less issue and you are halfway there now.

From what you said...you have NOT done the required maintenance (electrolyte filling) on the House. That would be a MAJOR Priority to at least get some more time out of your House and use the MH...then tackle the BIG ONE.  In reality, the BIG BOY, will still work and you can install the DC to DC charger and gut you system  later on. For your convenience as well as help.  READ THIS.  Working HOUSE are better than NON WORKING while you put together your plans for upgrades.  You need to focus on your HOUSE batteries for an hour or so and get things IN EQUILIBRIUM on the charging system....

This topic "ALMOST" met the requirements for a NEW issue or topic......and it morphed into fuel and engine issues.  However, The title has been EDITED to reflect that.  SO, any other posts here should pertain the the BIG BOY and not launch into a new topic.  Thanks for understanding why as this helps others when they search.

 

 

I am replacing all batteries with Lithium now, will starting post on the previous Lithium topic today.

Thanks.

[bryan browne]

I had followed this and I had assume all along that your NO Start meant that you had NO Cranking and bad or undercharged batteries. After installing new batteries you again said NO start. I again thought you had another issue, maybe starter. Were your batteries cranking the starter all the time and it did not start because of the filter issues? I started to ask this question early on but felt it was not pertinent.

[Dr4Film]

3 minutes ago, bryan browne said:

I had followed this and I had assume all along that your NO Start meant that you had NO Cranking and bad or undercharged batteries. After installing new batteries you again said NO start. I again thought you had another issue, maybe starter. Were your batteries cranking the starter all the time and it did not start because of the filter issues? I started to ask this question early on but felt it was not pertinent.

I totally agree! BIG difference between No Start and No Cranking. Exactly why people need to be very SPECIFIC when they post otherwise the thread will go down a DEEP rabbit hole ending up with a VERY long title such as this one which is ridiculous.

[Tom Cherry]

8 minutes ago, Dr4Film said:

I totally agree! BIG difference between No Start and No Cranking. Exactly why people need to be very SPECIFIC when they post otherwise the thread will go down a DEEP rabbit hole ending up with a VERY long title such as this one which is ridiculous.

Ridiculous is a bit, over the top…maybe accurate….so, here’s the bottom line.

YES….the cranking batteries were toast.  Then came all the OTHER information….like a rocket barrage.  By the time that we, the staff, caught up…it was a mixture.

The decision to let the OBVIOUSLY MORPHING topic stay “as is” was a judgment call.  The problem had been solved.  There were TWO issues…one…no can crank or turnover the engine…BUT then…no START and that was posted, and if you sort of read between the lines, it was THEN a fuel issue.

Rather than pull or split out the fuel issues….the title was edited to reflect BOTH and the topic stayed as is.  That was expedient….but had folks posted 10 or so helpful hints or comments, then, it would have been separated.  

From the staff’s point of view as well as the extra steps, offline, needed to keep the topics PURE…which is one of the FUNDAMENTAL rules here…it was easier to edit than to whack and separate.

The lesson…

YES….all facts are pertinent….like, OH, the fuel filters were also changed…..

YES…don’t interject a discussion a out “whatever” or change the focus.  We do NOT allow, and that is a standing principle, a “campfire” topic that goes on and on.

Richard, and others…you know the difficulties of a 30 chained email on the old Yahoo site to find out something.  We will not and are not going to allow that to happen.

OK…..keep posting…but provide all information and follow the rules.  Staff is MUCH happier and the info is easier to find and use…

Class dismissed….play nice at recess….LOL 😀. Not 🤯