FASS Installation Question

[wamcneil]

1 hour ago, Mick Adair said:

I really like that! I may retrofit mine later.

Thanks!

1 hour ago, jacwjames said:

What size copper tubing did you use??

Any concern about adding back pressure due to the restriction?

3/8. The copper ID is just slightly smaller than the -8an fittings. The tube will wind up being about 14” long and it should be the biggest resistance in the 1/2” return hose assembly. 
If most of the flow of the pump goes to the return, say 2.5 gal/min, I’m calculating about 1.2psi from the tube. 

[wamcneil]

BTW, similar pick-up tubes are commercially available.

1/2" TO 1/2" X 14" BRASS AND COPPER PICK UP TUBE (fleettruckparts.com)

This would install through the top of the tee fitting with a 3/4>1/2 bushing, and then a 1/2"NPT>-an fitting on top of that.

The ID of my tee fitting is >0.7", so there's is room for a 1/2" tube with more than 0.1" clearance between the tube and the fitting to pass vent air (equivalent to 1/2" dia hole).

If I were starting over I'd probably just buy the dip-tube linked above.

Or maybe I'd drill the tank near the fuel sender like Mike Z did and install the Holly riv-nut return fitting with dip-tube. That might put the return too close to the supply though. Not sure which I would do... 

Edited June 13 by wamcneil

[Mick Adair]

I don't think the FASS pump return will be affected by a 1.2PSI restriction.

[dl_racing427]

On 6/12/2024 at 2:49 PM, wamcneil said:

Ok. Here's what I came up with.

I had planned to hold the tube in there with a 3/8 NPT > 3/8 Compression fitting, but the hardware store had that bin chock full of the wrong fitting...

So I drilled out a 3/8 Flare plug, drove the copper pipe through it and then flared the end of the pipe.

 

 

 

I like your configuration, but copper or galvanized fittings should never be used in a diesel fuel system.
Copper is a catalyst for diesel to break down and gel, and zinc leaches into the fuel, clogging injection pumps and injectors.

https://www.practical-sailor.com/boat-maintenance/are-copper-zinc-and-brass-mucking-up-our-fuel

When I modified my Ford Super-Duty fuel system, I used stainless tubing and fittings from Swagelok.  Expensive, but not as much as an injection pump.

 

[wamcneil]

Thanks. I’ll check it in a few months and see how it’s doing. 
There’s already a bunch of brass in the system… 🫤

[dl_racing427]

Since this is a return line, any gel will be pushed back into the tank.
Hopefully, it won't clog your pickup, and the FASS filters should catch it.

Good luck.

[wamcneil]

Ok… another question…

The FASS wiring harness comes with a relay. 
If I were installing this in a pickup, I would definitely use their relay. But I’m running the wire to the front run bay.
And there’s an Ignition fuse panel. 
Is there any reason why wiring it up with the included relay would be better than eliminating the relay and wiring straight to an unused position in the Ignition fuse panel?
 

[wamcneil]

Ok. Stage-1 of the FASS-ination is complete!
Apparently my re-tightening of the lift pump about 5-yr ago is still holding. There’s no dripping fuel anywhere in can see. 
 

[cbr046]

5 hours ago, wamcneil said:

Is there any reason why wiring it up with the included relay would be better than eliminating the relay and wiring straight to an unused position in the Ignition fuse panel?

I had an ignition relay failure during a trip last year.  It cost me $1650 in towing and almost wasted a trip.  Pretty sure my FASS is through a relay directly to the chassis lug, but I'd like to know how much current that circuit pulls in normal conditions. 

I highly recommend you not connect directly to the ignition circuit. 

- bob

[wamcneil]

Well… too late… it’s hooked up to the ignition board in the front run bay. I’m not connecting directly to the ignition switch circuit.
This is the Ignition powered bank of fuses in the front run bay. This board runs the ABS and a bunch of other substantial loads. I’m taking over the Security terminal. That’s not used for anything if you don’t have the viper alarm. 
Plus, the pump is supposed to allow draw-through if it doesn’t have power. 
 

Edited June 16 by wamcneil

[wamcneil]

Ok… next question…

I plan to eliminate the 2ndary filter down low by the muffler like in MikeZ’s video. And use what is the original primary filter up in the driver-side of the engine compartment as a 3rd filter like he did. 
I haven’t yet pulled out the filter housings and looked at them closely. His 2ndary filter had an M10 hole plugged in the top, so he used an M10>1/8npt adapter for the gauge/sender. 
Im assuming the original primary filter doesn’t have a port in it for a pressure sender. 
Here’s the question finally: Rather than using an adapter with the original 2ndary housing, why not drill the top of the primary housing and tap it for 1/8”npt and skip the adapter?

Are the two filter housings the same other than the threaded port in the top?

Thanks

Walter

[tmw188]

I had to read this a few times to thoroughly understand what you are asking. If I understand you correctly I’m wanting to ask why do you want to use the original primary filter as your last filter before the CAPS pump? I haven’t watched his video in some time now but I too used it as a road map with my install and I don’t think that’s what he did. I know that’s not what I did. I used the OE filter and left it in place, it has the water in fuel sensor on the bottom. 
I put a T fitting in it to install the gauge and the sender for the front gauge. I looked but couldn’t find that photo. 

Edited June 27 by tmw188
Added photos

[wamcneil]

I’m planning to do the same thing. The question is about adapting the filter housing. 
I don’t have a hole in the filter bracket so I’ll need to cut a hole there. Not planning to relocate the bracket like MikeZ did  

I don’t think I have a threaded hole in the filter housing for a pressure gauge. I’m thinking that only ONE of my two filter housings maybe has a port for a pressure gauge. 
Assuming I’m right about that (I have not yet removed either filter housing to see if they have ports), I could just drill the top of the housing that doesn’t have a port, and tap for 1/8”NPT, right? 
In MikeZ’s video, he used a metric thread to NPT adapter.  I’m thinking that I’d rather drill the top and tap for 1/8” NPT rather than use.

Are the two filter housings the same except one might have a metric-threaded port in the top?

 

 

[jacwjames]

I decided to just use my secondary filter which is mounted on the passenger side of the engine, it had ports pressure sensor. 

I used a small grinder and removed the other bracket. 

If you want to drill and tap the filter housing don't see any reason not to. 

[wamcneil]

Here’s my 2ndary filter down by the muffler on the passenger side. It has a threaded port in the top.

The primary filter is on the driver side just below the driver-side rear run-box. It doesn’t have a port. My rig is identical to MikeZ’s dynasty.

 Primary filter housing looks like it’s very similar to the 2ndary housing except the top isn’t drilled for a port. 
Are there any differences between the two housings that aren’t apparent?

Rather than moving the 2ndary filter housing up to the location of the primary filter housing, I will discard the 2ndary filter housing and modify the primary filter housing with 1/8NPT port.

[jacwjames]

What micron filter will you use:?

[wamcneil]

Just now, jacwjames said:

What micron filter will you use:?

Whatever micron the FS1022 is that I normally use for the 2ndary filter. 10 micron? Planning to run the water sensor wire over to where the primary filter is presently located. 

Whenever I need to change the original fass filters will probably change to the Cat filters that fit the fass.

[cbr046]

1 hour ago, wamcneil said:

Whatever micron the FS1022 is that I normally use for the 2ndary filter. 10 micron? Planning to run the water sensor wire over to where the primary filter is presently located. 

Whenever I need to change the original fass filters will probably change to the Cat filters that fit the fass.

My primary filter clogged 3 years ago, probably because the coach had been sitting by the previous owner.  I replaced it then 5 months later it clogged again when I ran out of fuel (not recommended).  I literally replaced that filter in the turn lane of a road with trucks going by both sides.  I installed the FASS system with a fuel pressure gauge shortly after that and haven't changed a filter since.  2.5 years and 25,000 miles later still on the same FASS filters with 15 psi under load.  I do use Biobor JF, which is mainly for lubricity, but at the time I wasn't using anything.  

FS1022 is a 10 um filter.   FASS filters (<--link) are 140 um primary and 2 um secondary.  Why would you switch to CAT filters?

- bob 

 

[jacwjames]

8 minutes ago, cbr046 said:

My primary filter clogged 3 years ago, probably because the coach had been sitting by the previous owner.  I replaced it then 5 months later it clogged again when I ran out of fuel (not recommended).  I literally replaced that filter in the turn lane of a road with trucks going by both sides.  I installed the FASS system with a fuel pressure gauge shortly after that and haven't changed a filter since.  2.5 years and 25,000 miles later still on the same FASS filters with 15 psi under load.  I do use Biobor JF, which is mainly for lubricity, but at the time I wasn't using anything.  

FS1022 is a 10 um filter.   FASS filters (<--link) are 140 um primary and 2 um secondary.  Why would you switch to CAT filters?

- bob 

 

Scary

On IRV2 forum there was a post on the FASS system, one poster said he didn't install a filter after the FASS system, no need with 2 micron filter AND that there is no bypass in the filter.  I questioned that be the OP insisted so I got on line and found several FASS videos saying the same thing. 

So if you have a problem the first sign will be the lower fuel pressure and if it gets bad enough the engine may die with the only option to change the filter. 

Now I wonder if a CAT filter will bypass if it gets plugged up????????

 

 

[cbr046]

17 minutes ago, jacwjames said:

Now I wonder if a CAT filter will bypass if it gets plugged up????????

If it does bypass he'll be changing injectors.

- b

[wamcneil]

1 hour ago, cbr046 said:

...Why would you switch to CAT filters?

- bob 

 

I'm not convinced that FASS has any proprietary filtration technology, let alone filtration technology that is so advanced it will disrupt the market and make these guys the Tesla of diesel filtration. 😶

FASS's secondary filter has water absorption media which will plug once it has absorbed a certain amount of water and stop the engine. Everybody else in the industry like fleetguard, cat, baldwin, whatever has decided that the best approach is to use water separation media to block the water and let it pool in the bottom of the filter. 

So, my plan is to switch to conventional filters and keep the original FS1022 filter with water sensor as a backup to warn me that there is water in the fuel. Plus the cat filters are a lot physically bigger and presumably have a more media. I've kept biobor in the tank for the last 5-years or so and eventually cleaned up the tank to the point where my filters are pretty clean when I do the annual change. Hopefully it'll be a while before I'm motivated to change the filters...

1 hour ago, jacwjames said:

Scary

On IRV2 forum there was a post on the FASS system, one poster said he didn't install a filter after the FASS system, no need with 2 micron filter AND that there is no bypass in the filter.  I questioned that be the OP insisted so I got on line and found several FASS videos saying the same thing. 

So if you have a problem the first sign will be the lower fuel pressure and if it gets bad enough the engine may die with the only option to change the filter. 

Now I wonder if a CAT filter will bypass if it gets plugged up????????

 

 

I'm pretty confident that there are no fuel filters that will bypass when plugged. That would be horrible. The cat filters can definitely plug with slime and gook, but it won't plug with water.

I would agree that there is certainly no "need" for another filter after the fass. I'm paying HUNDREDS of $$$ for the finest diesel filtration system on the planet. It dang-well-better-not require yet another filter after the filter. Part of me wants to just take all of the other filters out and run straight FASS to CAPS. But the filter housing is already there and it's a convenient way to add a pressure gauge and keep the water sensor. 

Edited June 27 by wamcneil

[tmw188]

Something to consider especially if you are installing the pump up front near the fuel tank. There is a lot of fuel line running from the front to the back and in some cases probably very old. I don’t know if they deteriorate on the inside but another filter just before the CAPS might be good insurance. I don’t know however if having three filters is too much back pressure? I plan on replacing the fuel lines at some point coming from the old Lift Pump to the OE filters. 

[wamcneil]

I am a little concerned about possible degradation in the hoses. Planning to purge the final hose to CAPS with solvent and compressed air and see if I can get anything black or brown to come out of it. 

Edited June 27 by wamcneil

[tmw188]

10 minutes ago, wamcneil said:

I am a little concerned about possible degradation in the hoses. Planning to purge the final hose to CAPS with solvent and compressed air and see if I can get anything black or brown to come out of it. 

Yeah report back on that please.

[Rgoodman]

I just finished my install.  I put my pump by the tank.  Left original filters in place and bypassed the lift pump (it was very easy) and wired in a relay to trick ecm.  For my return, I was going to put a T in the vent like many states above but my pump came with a fitting that went inline at my tank on the Capps pump fuel return and had a nipple for the FASS supplied fuel line to hook to.  Very simple.  To answer the lift pump question- I did ALOT of reading and read that you DO NOT want to put pressure to the lift pump.  I can’t confirm for sure the reason so I won’t say why you should not leave it.   With 5 fittings from Amazon it’s a quick job to bypass