Water pump switch. 2008 Diplomat

[ScottB]

All 3 switches for the water pump will not turn off.  I have wired an additional switch between the hot line of the pump to enable the pump to be turned off and on as needed.   Could this be a relay issue?.  And if so does anyone know where the relay is located?  The only relay that I can locate in the wet bay is for the Sanicon    
 

thanks   

 

[Dr4Film]

Possibly your problem may be the Intellitec Water Pump Controller has failed not allowing you to turn the pump off.

This is what you are looking for.

Intellitec 0000145100 10 Amp Monoplex Water Pump Control, Black https://a.co/d/f6svpnK

Edited June 10 by Dr4Film

[ScottB]

Thank you so much for the response.  
I will give that a try…

 

[Tom Cherry]

https://www.rvpartscenter.com/shop-by-categories/list2/electrical-12-volt/ac-to-dc-1/rv-power-converters-3/intellitec-water-pump-controller-00-00145-100-detail

Click here.  There is a DIAGRAM in  the side bar.  CLICK ON IT.

This is FOR A PUMP with a Pressure Switch.  You MAY have the RV55 AquaTech or Remco RV55 Pump.  That PUMP does NOT have a pressure switch on it.

The circuit, in a narrative is like this.

The branch switches are all GROUND (Momentary Contact). When you PUSH a switch in...it sends a GROUND signal to the Controller.  The Controller then is a TOGGLE.  Push a switch...the controller LATCHES IN and the PUMP stays on.  As IN there is VOLTAGE to the PUMP.  BUT the internal pressure switch is what controls the pump coming on.

Push a switch again...that then kills or toggles OFF the Voltage.  REMEMBER...the pump switches are Momentary GROUND.

There is a PUMP ON light that is in parallel with the MOTOR.  So, when the Controller is LATCHED IN as in ON...the same VOLTAGE signal that sends power to the pump also lights up a pilot or INDICATOR light.  Don't know HOW many switches you have....typically FOUR.  Hall Vanity; Private Toilet; Kitchen and Service Bay.  ALL those switches are just GROUND WHEN PUSHED.

You need to locate the PUMP Controller.  Look on the 12 VDC or HOUSE fuse box for a PUMP FUSE.  That will be in Section 8 of your manual.  There is NO RELAY in that circuit.  The ON RELAY is actually built in to the controller.  CHECK that fuse.  That FUSE must work for the Controller to WORK. IF you are NOT getting an INDICATOR light on...anywhere...remember they are all TIED to the same wire...then there is NO POWER going to the Pump.  Find the Controller.  Check the POWER input for 12 VDC.  If it has POWER....which will be coming from the House Fuse box...then the controller is bad.  Order a new one.\

That's it...

[ScottB]

Okay, thank you for the info.    Assuming the built in relay failed, would that send power to all (3) switches and power to the pump without the switches being pushed.    I walked by the coach the a few days ago and heard the pump running, evidently turned on by itself???  None of these will turn off now.   

[Tom Cherry]

58 minutes ago, ScottB said:

Okay, thank you for the info.    Assuming the built in relay failed, would that send power to all (3) switches and power to the pump without the switches being pushed.    I walked by the coach the a few days ago and heard the pump running, evidently turned on by itself???  None of these will turn off now.   

OK..for clarification, the control is a toggling on/off latching relay.  So, technically, the controller is a relay.  It is all one unit.  Relay is part of the PCB and is mounted on it.

Remember….there is NO POWER to ANY SWITCH.  The switches are ALL PUSH DOWN; Momentary CONTACT.  Let off and the switch pops up.  The monetary contact signal….just says.  HEY CONTROLLER….do it again.  So, all the switch or any switch does is just toggle ON and OFF the controller.

That’s how it works.  Look at the circuit….  When the controller is “LATCHED” on…power to the pump and the indicator lights are ON….push a switch again….the relay unlatches and then Latches into the OFF position.

FIRST check fuse.  Second locate controller. Test for voltage on 12 VDC input.  You got power??  ALSO CHECK the GROUND on the controller…to GROUND….  Then use a jumper and give the “INPUT” or signal terminal a quick GROUND signal….no work….order new.

Got it?.

[Cajunboy1959]

Tom and Dr4film have you on the right track. I had the same issue last year and I replaced the controller and it fixed it. See photo attached. 

This is the one I replaced. Found it on Amazon. Check your part number. Mine was located in the wet bay near the water pump.

Cajunboy1959

[MyronTruex]

The controller shown in the picture is located along the wall, behind my water bay panel. We have a 2008 HR so yours may be very similiar. 

[ScottB]

Thanks, found mine behind the panel with winterizing instruction/diagram in the water bay as well.    

[Dr4Film]

Is it working or not???

[ScottB]

Have not r&r the part yet, waiting in delivery, supposed to be here tomorrow.   I’ll sure let you know when replaced.   
 

Of course  today when I was searching for the controller all the switch lights were out and are operating properly.  Go figure.  Still going to replace at your recommendation and see what happens.  
 

thanks again.   

[Cajunboy1959]

Hi Scott B,

Just another thought. A bad or loose ground could have caused your issue. Like many have mentioned the momentary switch has no power to it. In the pushed momentart position it is just grounding out one of the terminals on the controller to latch it on and off with 12volts to the water pump via the load terminal on the controller. I hope this helps.

Cajunboy1959 

 

[Dr4Film]

@ScottB Hopefully it is a failed controller, otherwise you will have a spare to hang onto in your spare parts box. That controller is a "latching" controller. it is either latched in the ON position or OFF position.

There are only four connections to the controller - Red wire is constant 12 VDC Positive, purple wire is for all of your switches, black wire goes to a high amp relay (explanation below) and white wire goes to constant ground. I would have checked all of those connections making sure they were tight and operated as designed.

You should have a 40 amp relay mounted on the wall too which the black wire from the controller will go to one terminal on that relay. The purpose of this relay is to handle the higher amp heavier gauge wire that your water pump requires to run.

The controller operates as follows - When you engage any of your water pump switches the controller will "latch" ON which sends 12 VDC power through the black wire to the high amp relay which closes and turns on your water pump. As long as your water pump is on with ALL of the indicator switch lights lit up, the water pump will be "active" and turn on and off when any  water is used via the pumps internal pressure switch. When you use any switch to turn OFF the water pump, the controller "latches" OFF which then turns ALL of the switch lights OFF. The water pump no longer has any power to run.

 

[MyronTruex]

You likely exercised the connections on the controller when you found  it and probably did a tug and tickle. 

It is incredibly hard to resist and find myself doing it. A meter gently measuring before wiggling can give you confidence in  a repair that can drive you crazy if it is an intermittent. 

 I keep my positive leads sharpened to allow contact with less pressure. 

[ScottB]

Thanks to all for your assistance!   I replaced the latch controller, although all the switch lights had gone out, since I had it may as well replace it - right.   After replacing all was good, I checked off and on for a week or more all lights were off. However, yesterday after doing some tank cleaning,  not running the pump at all, when I went into the coach to prime the tanks with water, again no pump used, I saw the pump light come on and then go off after about 3 seconds???  Today when checked the pump lights are on again and will not turn off.     At this point I’m thinking ground issue.    Checked wires to pump and gang plug in wet bay which I checked previously, all seem good.   Any ideas of other grounds to check?

[Ivan K]

I had an issue with the lights not turning off and also just replaced the relay box without much troubleshooting and that did not help. When I got home and looked into it closer, I found a randomly bad pump switch in the hallway. I don't remember the details but I think the lights weren't as bright as normally would be when that happened. After disconnecting the switch, it all went back to normal and a new switch from an unused position fixed it. Now I have a spare $20 or so latching relay for next time...

Now I just remembered, it was the only switch with the indicator light built in, not a separate light like the others. So I think the light ground somehow leached to the switch pin.

 

Edited Wednesday at 02:24 AM by Ivan K

[ScottB]

Thanks!   I’ll give that a shot.   

[Tom Cherry]

23 hours ago, ScottB said:

Thanks to all for your assistance!   I replaced the latch controller, although all the switch lights had gone out, since I had it may as well replace it - right.   After replacing all was good, I checked off and on for a week or more all lights were off. However, yesterday after doing some tank cleaning,  not running the pump at all, when I went into the coach to prime the tanks with water, again no pump used, I saw the pump light come on and then go off after about 3 seconds???  Today when checked the pump lights are on again and will not turn off.     At this point I’m thinking ground issue.    Checked wires to pump and gang plug in wet bay which I checked previously, all seem good.   Any ideas of other grounds to check?

Lets go back to basics.  The controller sends out a 12 VDC SIGNAL. SO, you complete the circuit and you have power available at the pump.  That 12 VDC Signal is also SPLIT.  It goes to EVERY pilot light on every switch .  All that is….is an INDICATOR, that the pump circuit is ON or Active.  Not knowing whether you have a pressure switch that is hard wired or the pressure switch in inside the pump, like the RV55….Does NOT make any difference.  The pressure switch only turns on the pump motor when needed.  So all the indicator lights are ALWAYS on.  That tells you, from every location, that the pump circuit is ACTIVE…OR “ready for duty”.

The way to properly troubleshoot is to pop out a switch.  Locate the wire that is the feedack signal.  The switch has the following…

GROUND.  That is a fixed ground.  When you push the button, then the switch makes a momentary circuit….so the ground signal is sent to the controller.  So….two wires….one directly to ground..and you can test it.  The other is the signal or wire to the controller…and you can find that. There is only ONE other wire.  That is the 12 VDC signal from the controller that provide a constant voltage source to the pump.  That wire goes to one side of the indicator light….the OTHER side is tied to the fixed ground.  Use your VOM and locate the three wire and identify

What may be happening….wherever the main 12 VDC line or wire to the Pump…somewhere, after it comes out of the controller, it has to be SPLIT.  One wire to each pump.  Probably you have 4 pump switches…. Water bay, kitchen, private bath and hallway sink.  If they are ALL not working….then it is a wiring issue.

IF IT WAS a GROUND…then the pump switch would NOT turn on the pump.  Remember, that is a GROUND….and on a loop.  Any switch can do it.  A similar loop runs for the Pump indicator.  

There is no “grounding issue”.  Your pump 12VDC loop is bad….and it is downstream of where the Pump Power wire goes to the pump.  Now WHERE are the 4 wires OR the loop on that wire?  Your prints will tell you.

Hope this helps…. 

[Ivan K]

I'm not sure I understand the part mentioning fixed ground for indicator light. That was my issue when the ground was falsely 'fixed' by a short between the switch pin with permanent ground and the negative side of the ligh bulb, inside my only lighted switch. The others have separate indicators.  My indicators get their ground from the controller, same pin where the pump gets it's ground if turned on. Here is someone's drawing describing my wiring precisely. 

[MyronTruex]

You might indeed have a funky ground wire on the controller with your last description of events. You need a known good ground for a voltmeter when testing the ground to see if any voltage  shows up but you can easily miss a problem. 

I rarely suggest taking stabs at things but since the controller is in a wet environment, connections can be a problem. I would suggest you take the ground wire off and cut the connector (spade lug), off and replace it. It is possible the connector has some corrosion and simple vibration throughout the compartment may be enough to make it go silly.

Getting good voltage measurement when things are working (at the latching controller), when it is working is very important and you should write them down. Then when it acts up you can compare new readings.