Ran Out Of Fuel - Now What

[Steve Shunk]

Well, I think I managed to run the ISM 500 on my 2005 Signature dry. This morning it started up just fine and I pulled over to an area to connect my jeep. The area was quite tilted and I just let the engine idle while I hooked up the jeep. Then the engine just sputtered to a stop. I figured all the fuel ran to one side and was not getting sucked into the engine so I put ten gallons in and it still will not fire. Assuming it really did just run dry, what can I do to get it running again? Thanks in advance.

[Dr4Film]

You need to make multiple trips to the fuel station for diesel to get enough diesel into the tank for the pickup tube to suck up the fuel to start the engine. Or have a fuel delivery truck come to you to fill up the tank.

Then you will need to cycle the engine fuel lift pump multiple times to get the air out of the delivery lines.

Once the engine starts you may have to restart it multiple times before it gets back to normal.

Important lesson, never let your tank go lower than half before looking for a fuel station to fill up.

[timaz996]

See if your generator will start and run on a load for 10 minutes anyway to make sure that the pick up tube for the generator is in the fuel. If it does that. Follow what Richard said and keep cycling your lift pump. With the 500 Cummings I’m not sure if your lift pump runs constant or shut off like my lift pump used to do before I put in a FASS set up on my rig.

Edited Thursday at 08:04 PM by timaz996

[Benjamin]

How much do you think was in the tank?  I wouldn't be surprised if it took way more than ten gallons to reach the pickup.  Try another ten, then cycle the key for thirty seconds and turn to start for a few seconds, then off and back to on for thirty seconds and a few seconds of cranking.  This cycling might not be needed on an X, if you can hear the fuel pump continue to run after 30 seconds then you can cycle it for a minute and then a few seconds cranking. 

Unfortunately, it seems Richard is right, the bottom quarter at least of the tank is not usable on most RV's without risking this happening.  Seems like a waste to me, an extra 250-500 pounds of weight that is useless, when trucks and other vehicles have tanks that work. 

[BradHend]

The engine supply isn’t stemmed at 1/4 tank, just the genny.  So you don’t run out of fuel to drive.  Am I missing something here?

[jacwjames]

10 gallons probably won't add 1" of fuel to the tank.  So if you are really leaning it will take much more to get it up above the fuel pick up.  

Once you add fuel you might want to pull the fuel filters and fill them with clean fuel (plug the center hole).  Then cycle the key a half a dozen times.  Hopefully you'll get it running.

 

I know my generator runs out of fuel at 28 gallons left in the tank.  My wife had someone pull fuel out of her tank on a trip she is currently on.  She had to pump 112 gallons of fuel to fill it up based on Silverleaf she still had 65 gallons in the tank.  Lucky she didn't run out of fuel. 

Edited Thursday at 09:08 PM by jacwjames

[Benjamin]

If the generator keeps running, then you know you have enough fuel to run the engine.  Higher fuel level makes it easier for the pump to suck the fuel up to engine level. 

I would not open the filters, they should still be full except the top. They won't suck the fuel out of the bottom of the filter, only as low as the threaded nipple, so 1/2" or so. 

[Steve Shunk]

Thanks to all for the suggestions. As somebody pointed out with the generator, I ran the generator last night for about fifteen minutes. It started right up and never starved for fuel. So I figured I had at least 1/4 tank of fuel left since that's what the manual says. After adding about twelve gallons of fuel and priming for a good fifteen minutes I got it to fire up. So for whatever reason, my generator dip tube depth seems to not be correct.

[Dr4Film]

They never are correct. You just have to run the generator until it runs out of fuel and won't run any longer. Then go fuel up to see how many gallons it takes to fill the tank. You will then know approximately where the pickup tube is in relation to the number of gallons if fuel.

My previous Windsor had both the fuel pickups for the generator and the Aqua-Hot at the same depth. They would both stop after using about 80 gallons. The Cummins ISC-350 would shut down after about 100 gallons of diesel were used. That left 28 gallons of useless fuel in the tank.

Edited Thursday at 10:38 PM by Dr4Film

[Frank McElroy]

2 hours ago, Steve Shunk said:

Well, I think I managed to run the ISM 500 on my 2005 Signature dry. This morning it started up just fine and I pulled over to an area to connect my jeep. The area was quite tilted and I just let the engine idle while I hooked up the jeep. Then the engine just sputtered to a stop. I figured all the fuel ran to one side and was not getting sucked into the engine so I put ten gallons in and it still will not fire. Assuming it really did just run dry, what can I do to get it running again? Thanks in advance.

You mentioned that you were quite tilted.  By any chance, were you tilted to the DS?  I believe fuel pickup is on the PS.  So, if you tilted far to the PS, and prefilled the fuel filters - you likely would have been able to restart without adding fuel to the tank.

[tmw188]

45 minutes ago, Dr4Film said:

The Cummins ISC-350 would shut down after about 100 gallons of diesel were used. That left 38 gallons of useless fuel in the tank.

Richard did you mean 28 gal, or did you have a larger tank because of the Aqua Hot?

[Dr4Film]

3 minutes ago, tmw188 said:

Richard did you mean 28 gal, or did you have a larger tank because of the Aqua Hot?

Yes, my mistake, I have corrected that error in my post.

Thank you for pointing that out.

[tmw188]

Ok, wasn’t sure Richard. Your other info is helpful to know. 

Edited Thursday at 10:56 PM by tmw188

[cbr046]

If it happens again, or anyone else, use your jacks to tilt the coach level or slightly the other side.  Get the engine started (multiple cycles of key), raise the jacks and get the coach level as quickly as reasonable (safety first).

- bob

[Ivan K]

It may be worth mentioning in this case that ISM engine does not have a lift pump to run with the key on cycle. If the original standalone priming pump, Racor or similar, has not been removed, this is the way to prime the system.

[Jdw12345]

FWIW, being in the trucking business all my life, one reason manufacturers don’t put the pickup tubes to the bottom of the tank is to avoid sucking all of the crap in the fuel tank into you filters, if your fuel gets contaminated with water you can remove the drain plug from the bottom of the tank and drain all of the crap out, along with additional strength the bottom of my tank has a low area for drainage, that’s all I can think of for this reason. 
JMO. 

[Dr4Film]

9 hours ago, Ivan K said:

It may be worth mentioning in this case that ISM engine does not have a lift pump to run with the key on cycle. If the original standalone priming pump, Racor or similar, has not been removed, this is the way to prime the system.

Where on the ISM engine is this "standalone" priming pump located?

[Ivan K]

In my case the pump is above the hitch area and works great for me when changing filters.

[Dr4Film]

Would a 2000 ISM Cummins engine be the same as his 2005 ISM Cummins engine?

[Ivan K]

3 minutes ago, Dr4Film said:

Would a 2000 ISM Cummins engine be the same as his 2005 ISM Cummins engine?

Steve would have to confirm but outside of EGR I would expect it the same in 05. The pump could be a different version but same principle. ISM does not need a lift pump or Fass unless wanted for polishing the fuel.

[dl_racing427]

12 hours ago, Jdw12345 said:

FWIW, being in the trucking business all my life, one reason manufacturers don’t put the pickup tubes to the bottom of the tank is to avoid sucking all of the crap in the fuel tank into you filters, if your fuel gets contaminated with water you can remove the drain plug from the bottom of the tank and drain all of the crap out, along with additional strength the bottom of my tank has a low area for drainage, that’s all I can think of for this reason. 
JMO. 

I know it's common practice, but I've never quite grasped the logic in this.
It seems like a small sump should be included, to allow the pickup to get all the fuel, and count on the filters to catch any contaminates.
That should KEEP the tank clean, instead of pushing the inevitable problem down the road until it's a major issue.

I modified the tank on my Cobra to add a sump, running the outlet and return lines directly to the sump.
After the first couple tanks, I did catch a bit of aluminum chips left over from building the tank, in the pre-filter, but after cleaning those out, it's never had another problem.

[Preston W]

We found out years ago that rgw fuel pickup pipe down in the tank doesn't go all the way to the bottom to allow for the sludge that builds up in the bottom of diesel fuel tanks. On our 1998 dynasty we were fortunate that the previous owner had ordered the Racor air and fuel purge system on the back. which we have used countless times it works so well when you get air in the lines or run out of fuel.

[Jdw12345]

On 6/28/2024 at 9:23 AM, dl_racing427 said:

I know it's common practice, but I've never quite grasped the logic in this.
It seems like a small sump should be included, to allow the pickup to get all the fuel, and count on the filters to catch any contaminates.
That should KEEP the tank clean, instead of pushing the inevitable problem down the road until it's a major issue.

I modified the tank on my Cobra to add a sump, running the outlet and return lines directly to the sump.
After the first couple tanks, I did catch a bit of aluminum chips left over from building the tank, in the pre-filter, but after cleaning those out, it's never had another problem.

My trucks were all Catarpillar powered, so that’s what I know, on the early Cat’s (early 80’s to late 90’s, 3406 and 3408 series) there was a fuel transfer pump that supplied the injection pump with fuel, it was a plunger type pump mounted under the air compressor on the side of the block with 3 one way replaceable valves and a couple of O rings, it ran off of a lobe on the cam (if I remember correctly), if you should happen to get some water in the fuel and it was cold out, like well below freezing cold, and that water froze and passed through the pump it would take out one of those one way valves, you were done making forward progress! I carried a complete replacement pump and extra O rings and one way valves, If you’ve ever driven between Rawlings Wy and Casper Wy (115 miles if my memory serves me correctly) in the middle of the night and it’s -35 you want clean fuel going through the system! I installed a cleanable fuel filter ahead of the fuel transfer pump that would catch all of the crap that passed through it, slim, water and any other material that was in the fuel, you could take it apart, remove the screen, clean it, install a new head seal screw it back on and pump the primer pump on the main filter head and fire it up and roll again. I’ve never owned a Cummins till I purchased this coach so I can’t speak for Cummins or there reasoning on their fuel systems. I did know a couple of people that ran Alaska from Mn that had Cummins powered trucks and I know when there ordered their trucks they ordered stand pipe fuel draw vs bottom draw. It’s all on how you want to spec out your truck when you order it! I also had what was called Arctic Fox fuel heaters in my fuel tanks, and for the record the 10 years i ran my 87 Pete to California from Mn I never froze up or gelled up! Thank goodness! 
 

 

Edited Sunday at 06:08 AM by Jdw12345

[Preston W]

Very interesting. You may have the most prepared fuel tank around. It did seem crazy to me to just let sludge built up in the bottom of a tank and put the inlet hose above perhaps the last 110 or 15 gallons.  We were coming back from Yuma and my gauge was about on empty on the Monaco and I pulled into a truck stop, actually ran out of fuel as coasted up. So I was able to carefully fill the entire tank. Capacity was 102 gallons and it took about 90.