Is Roadmaster chassis related to Freightliner?

[saflyer]

I’ve heard in the past the Roadmaster chassis of Monaco and Holiday Rambler is a modification of a Freightliner chassis. If so I wonder if Freightliner will work on my 2005 HR Ambassador. My headlights don’t work. No headlights at all. I’ve had two shops try to find out why they don’t but without luck. I have a wiring schematic but the last shop said it only was wiring for the coach, not the chassis. I’m at a loss for where to go. Will Freighliner give me any help?

[vito.a]

Roadmaster and Freightliner are not connected in any way.  

But give them a call.  They may work on your coach  

 

[jacwjames]

Contact REV and request a set of wiring diagrams that include the chassis wiring diagram.  https://www.monacocoach.com/contact-us/

[Tom Cherry]

11 hours ago, saflyer said:

I’ve heard in the past the Roadmaster chassis of Monaco and Holiday Rambler is a modification of a Freightliner chassis. If so I wonder if Freightliner will work on my 2005 HR Ambassador. My headlights don’t work. No headlights at all. I’ve had two shops try to find out why they don’t but without luck. I have a wiring schematic but the last shop said it only was wiring for the coach, not the chassis. I’m at a loss for where to go. Will Freighliner give me any help?

NO...they are as different as can be.  The Roadmaster was actually a "Chrysler" designed chassis.  Can't remember exactly HOW it got to Monaco...other than Chrysler decided MH's was NOT their forte.

Next UP.  There are drawing for your MH in the files.  This is NOT a "specialty" circuit or something that is exotic.  The Headlights are a bit different...and folks often have issues.  If you use the Search Function put in Headlights and Ambassador in the Search Box.  Then click on Everywhere and choose TOPIC's

You may not find all you want...but there will be lots there.  You have to scroll down and read or skim the topic and then click and that will take you to the entire post.

As far as your headlights go.  Monaco used the SAME SYSTEM from at least the early 2000's.  There were TWO systems....you probably do NOT have the VIP Smart Steering wheel...which makes it simpler.

There is a headlight switch.  That feeds a relay.  The relay then feeds the HI/LO Switch.  Then that feeds the headlights.  There may be more than one relay.  These are BOSCH 5 Pin relays.  They will be wherever your FRONT electronics is. You need to find a BETTER SHOP.  There is NO MAGIC Chassis Drawing.  The prints or Schematics you have are for the 12 VDC system.  There is NOT a specific "Chassis SYSTEM".  All you need is a good shop that can work on CARS or TRUCKS (OTR).  This is NOT like a car...  If the Tech can't do voltage testing and follow a circuit....then don't let him MESS with it.  We have had MORE issues with unknowing techs than you can name.

The Monaco prints show WHERE the 12 VDC power comes from.  This is NOT SOME EXOTIC COMPUTER BOARD...  It is STUDS and CABLES.  Then the Headlight circuit is simple.  FOLLOW the PRINTS....  Check the RELAYS.  Check what is happening...

We don't specifically have an "AMBASSDOR" print.  But we have many other 2005.  If you have the print....take a picture of it or have it scanned and post it.

That will tell members that will help exactly what you have.  ODDS ARE...we have MANY that will be able to help.

It is a MATTER of finding out WHAT DON'T WORK.  The Headlight switch is old...as maybe a Chevy Pickup...and NAPA or any parts house has them. Easy to SWAP out.  BUT, it takes a mechanic that can use a VOLTMETER rather than google a YouTube or look for a "CHIP".  

The same goes for the Relays.  OLD, but reliable and SIMPLE technogy.

We have actually had folks that, recently, got tired of issues and put in a different switch.  SO, we have help here..

Good Luck.

[waterskier_1]

Yes.  It is confusing.  As Tom stated, the original Roadmaster was designed by Chrysler.  I'm not aware that Chrysler ever built any vehicles using the design before it was sold to Monaco.   The Monaco brand was eventually purchased by REV.  REV has TradeMarked the "Roadmaster Chassis" name and is/was using it in Monaco products they built on Freightliner chassis.  This makes it really difficult for those who don't understand the history of the Chrysler designed Roadmaster Chassis.  If I had to venture a guess, I'd say they did this because the Roadmaster (Chrysler designed version) has a great reputation for comfort and stability.  I'm attaching a 2017 Diplomat brochure page showing the usage of "Roadmaster Chassis" as evidence of this.

 

Rick N.

[Bobkat11208]

You might see if there is a Cummins Coach Care location near you. That’s who I use locally in the Indianapolis area. Their national website specifically mentions Tiffin, but they work on my RR8, fwiw.
 

[birdshill123]

Roadaster was the brainwave wave of some Chrysler engineers. It became Roadmaster Rail. But this was when Chrysler was going bankrupt.  Travco/Foretavel did use 3  of these gas engine chassis. Apparently they used a chev engine, Ford and Mopar.  I do not know know how Monaco acquired the rights to the chassis and the name.  It was and is light years ahead of other Dp chassis.

Edited Sunday at 03:17 PM by birdshill123

[birdshill123]

Be aware that many FL shops are not familiar with amything other than their own chassis. Thay charge almost $200 an hour. Some even add 10% for shop supplies. You will be paying a fortune for the mechanic to learn about Monaco.

[Ivan K]

I often wonder what is the deal with specialized chassis shops, only servicing a certain make chassis? In my view they all are just chunks of welded metal, everything else is off the shelf stuff, axles, brakes, steering and some bushings. The bags, air system, pretty much the same thing in principle. 

[saflyer]

1 hour ago, Ivan K said:

I often wonder what is the deal with specialized chassis shops, only servicing a certain make chassis? In my view they all are just chunks of welded metal, everything else is off the shelf stuff, axles, brakes, steering and some bushings. The bags, air system, pretty much the same thing in principle. 

That’s what I’m thinking, especially about headlights.

[birdshill123]

FL techs are prima Donas. The first move will be the tech wanting an electrical diagram. He will call Rev. That will take half an hour @$200 an hour. He will whine that they do not stock any of the parts. The clock keeps ticking. A good independent truck shop or a mobile mechanic would be a good choice. But sometimes they are so busy motorhomes are turned away.

[Frank McElroy]

In 1984 Monaco bought Roadmaster Chassis from Chrysler Corp. Roadmaster was a chassis division that Chrysler opened mid-1980s to design a chassis for a commercial bus/coach that they planned to build. They changed their plan and sold off the division including the chassis to Monaco. Monaco used the Roadmaster chassis line for the Beavers until the end of production in 2009.

Here is a link to the history.

 

[Tom Cherry]

27 minutes ago, Frank McElroy said:

In 1984 Monaco bought Roadmaster Chassis from Chrysler Corp. Roadmaster was a chassis division that Chrysler opened mid-1980s to design a chassis for a commercial bus/coach that they planned to build. They changed their plan and sold off the division including the chassis to Monaco. Monaco used the Roadmaster chassis line for the Beavers until the end of production in 2009.

Here is a link to the history.

 

This is truly an amaziing history of our “coaches”.  There are two points or perhaps one and a “sidebar” that I know is true.  Documented the the Navistar annual reports as well as EPA and DOT press releases. I knew most of this, but had never seen it recapped.

The Purchase price ($47 M) is correct or was verified by the conversations of the Monaco “Dealer’s Council” group.  They also commented that the receiver’s purchase price seemed very low.  At this time, Navistar also received a grant (US Government….purportedly EPA and DOT combined).  NOW…in keeping with the site’s rules….comments or such on that and/Or criticism which might morph into “political” discussions are not permitted.

The grant was to develop and build a sustainable Fedex Electric “Package” delivery truck…or an EV Fedex Truck.  That grant was in the $75 - $125 Million range.  Googling will provide additional information about that project.  The point, Monaco was considered as a REAL bargain and an ideal “fit” to expand Navistar.  It also provided a large market for the MAXXFORCE engines as well as an “in-house” testing and development arrangement.  A very logical business model.

Unfortunately, the MaxxForce was plagued with technology issues and the EPA later fined Navistar a significant amount.  The exact number and the “specifics” are hard to research.  But, effectively, there was a “fine” between say $5,000 and perhaps as much as $10,000 PER ENGINE SOLD and Installed in a titled vehicle.  Obviously that had an impact and Navistar had to reconsider it’s business model and ALLIED (REV) became the owner of the OLD Monaco.

NOW…the following is based on conversations with ex Monaco employees and also, again, former Monaco dealers.  REV has, and uses the “Roadmaster” Chassis trademark.  The first models were “dubbed” in the sales brochures as “New Roadmaster”. You can download them from MonacoCoach.com (memory…I have a permanent link to the site).  It was BELIEVED by many Ex Monaco employees, in Oregon, that REV owned the assets and intellectual property and trademarks of ALL of Monaco.  This history reads differently.

What is NOT included is the “fate” of the ACTUAL Roadmaster Chassis.  So…there are two scenarios….as to OWNERSHIP, but here is what actually happened.  As well as the “Tax and Financial Accounting” laws.

An entity, Navistar or REV….but, they BOTH AGREED, totally DESTROYED all the physical or Capital assets of the Roadmaster Chassis “production” entity.  All tooling and manufacturing equipment was segregated in the factory.  All WIP (Work In Progress) chassises were moved to this location.  ALL NEW components that were dedicated to the chassis were moved.  All “spare parts” or those sold as replacement parts to a dealer were purged from the “stock room”.  These were bearings, air bags, bushings, etc.  Many Chassis “shops” across the country TRIED to purchase or were willing to place bids on these items.  NOPE!

The ONLY item excluded was the “axles” and that was later defined as the Differential…and perhaps the TAG axle. There were ongoing negotiations with Dana to pay a restocking charge and recoup say, 75% of the purchase price.  It is BELIEVED that Dana declined.

This entire “area” of the factory or a giant “yard sale looking” conglomeration was secured.  The internal financial auditors and the external auditors (“suits” as they were called) presided over this area.  Navistar employees that were involved in “Financial Asset Control” were retained.  WHY??

The NAME “ROADMASTER” has a a prescribed “GOODWILL” value.  That is an ASSET…usually very HIGH.  The physical assets, Machinery that has been deprecated is a Capital Asset.  The WIP items are assets.  Bottom LINE.  ONE entity plans a massive TAX WRITE OFF.  In order for that write off to be approved in the Annual Report…due to the magnitude, the entity’s external auditor has to be involved.  The exact value is calculated to the penny.  The assets are photographed or videoed.  Thus, every item involved or even remotely involved in the manufacturing of the Roadmaster Chassis is accounted for….as well as the components.

The control protocols call for the auditors to accompany the “rolloff’s” of scrap containers to a recycling facility.  They are labeled.  Then the auditors stay on site at the recyler and make sure everything is crushed or destroyed.  

Once that is done….then the “GOODWILL” writeoff as well as the “Physical assets” writeoff will be allowed.  This is COMMONLY done.  In my career, I was involved in at least 2….would have been a third…but I had been trying to sell the entire line to an offshore competitor.  Our writeoff was around $250K.  That was included in the project justification.  At the last minute, I had a bid of $500K…and negotiated to $750K.  WE JUMPED ON IT.  That was a NET SWING of ONE MILLION DOLLARS…..to our bottom line. My “untiring” efforts to improve the company’s P&L were noted and my bonus was reflective of that.  In all honesty, a friend and ex boss, had designed and  built snd started it up and was the plant manager.  He was distraught and gave me all the insight into it and really wanted it to live and prosper..  I found the right used equipment agent and he came through and I negotiated a higher amount.

THUS..l KNOW as I had to help document the process and also work with an external auditor….so, technically, I have done three.

NOW…did REV get the writeoff for destroying the Roadmaster chassis and then used the NEW ROADMASTER TM??  Did Navistar, as was often done….decide to take all the losses in one year….??  Don’t know.  Everyone that commented said it was the NEW OWNER….but maybe Navistar.

Bottom line….there is NO equipment left to manufacture the ORIGINAL Roadmaster chassis.  That is a fact… and all the intellectual property is REV’s and one can’t duplicate it nor sell it….

[birdshill123]

I remember that Roadmaster chassis was not part of the original bankruptcy purchase. The new owners panicked as they were afraid that they would be responsible for any recalls. The Judge for the sale of assets added Roadmaster to the list.zI have used bankruptcy and receivership as interchangeable. It really is different. But the company was not sold. Only assets. There was a lot of information and rumours on the old IRV site. For instance: Someone from Navistar was appointed to Monaco's board of directors before Monaco went under.  There were a number of unsold and partially completed units included in the assets. I think the real estate was also included. I do not know what happened to the campgrounds that Monaco owned in the USA and Australia. Navistar sold a warehouse of legacy parts along with the parts manuals to Northwest RV . When Rev acquired Fleetwood they honoured existing warranties  and kept the "good old boys" that provided tech support. Rev might have been Allied at that time. Monaco owners got zip.

[hex_nut]

The only connections between FCCC (Freightliner Custom Chassis Corporation) and Roadmaster chassis is way back in ancient history.  Both facilities were originally Chrysler entities.  The chassis facility in Gaffney, SC. was owned by Chrysler in the 1970s.  They were marketed under the Dodge Truck brand.  (My first class A motorhome road on a Dodge M400 chassis powered by the Chrysler 440 motor, which would pass anything except a gas station.)  In the late 70s (oil embargo days), Chrysler sold the facility to John Deere.  In the mid 80s, John Deere sold the facility to Oskosh Trucking.  Both John Deere and Oshkosh manufactured gas and diesel engine powered motorhome chassis'.  In the mid 90s, Oshkosh sold the facility to Freightliner (so it went back to Chrysler since Freightliner at that time was a Chrysler subordinate).  Freightliner dropped the gas powered chassis'  to concentrate on diesel power (my first diesel pusher was on an early Freightliner chassis out of Gaffney).  My current motorhome rides on a chassis that is labeled "Roadmaster".  However, it is actually a "Magnum" chassis that was left over from when Monaco bought SMC and acquired the Beaver brand and the Magnum chassis facility.  Interesting enough, the origin of the Magnum chassis facility can be traced back to a military contract with the Chrysler Corporation.  So, regardless of which brand name chassis most of us are driving, it can be traced back to Chrysler.

Richard      

[birdshill123]

hex-nut: Great info. We too had a mh with a Chrysler chassis. It was an M600 with a 440. A real powerhouse

 People tend to forget that the old Mopar was a true innovator. They were the first of the big 3 to have a unit body.  First in NA to hae an altenator. Push button Torqeflite transmission that was bulletproof. Drag racers modified them and were used in Dragsters. In the days of car companies participating in racing the Roadmaster engineers offered their expertise to the racing communities. The Mopar mh chassis was far superior to either Ford or GM. 

 

 

 

Edited Tuesday at 09:50 PM by birdshill123