AC, furnace and Aqua-Hot

[Chris and Donna]

Hello, I need help with front AC, furnace and heater craft heat exchangers in the front of our 2006 Navigator.  We may have to change out the original front AC and are currently waiting on a new fan motor, and if that does not get AC portion working according to tech, then it will need replaced. So  I need to know all about this so we can get it back to original working order (suspect it is not correct now).

What we have

2 Dometic CCC 5 button thermostats (both 2006)

3 Dometic Duo Therm rooftop AC’s ducted (all 3 2006)

Aqua-Hot 100-04S and heat exchangers in bedroom, under shower sink, under toilet sink (with multiplex fan switch),  under kitchen cabinet with ducting to toe kick register and behind couch, this unit has a Heater Craft off, low, medium, and high fan control on lower cabinet.

In the bedroom on the dual zone thermostat, zone 1 is bedroom exchanger, zone 2 controls the shower area exchanger. The toilet room has an exchanger fan switch for that exchanger. All of this works for cooling, heat pumps and furnace.

Currently the front AC has as far as I can tell the original control board. The board has dip switches but the furnace dip switch is not on. The control board does have 2 data cables plugged in. I have tried setting dip to furnace and do a reset on thermostat but furnace never shows up on screen.

I have read on Irv2 that the coach's heat switch on the kitchen cabinet powers the exchanger for the cabinet toe kick vent, the under couch vent and the cockpit center vent if equipped. I have been unable to confirm this functionality as the switch does not do anything and I have so far been unable to test.

This thread talks about the order of use as

1. Turn on AquaHot (let it heat)
2. Turn on wall thermostat for heat, furnace never shows up.
3. Turn on Heater Craft Heat Exchangers, not working as furnace not on.

https://www.irv2.com/forums/f115/holiday-rambler-heater-craft-626178.html

This thread  talks about the function but my schematics/prints book does not show show anything for this whole setup (could be a page missing) but the 2006 Navigator prints in the files section does not show it either. So I am hitting a wall and need some direction from the Monacoers knowledgebase. 

Chris & Donna

 

[vito.a]

Wow, a Detroit 60 Series powered Navigator.   That's a nice find. 

Your coach came with three Penguin low profile A/C units.  They may also be heat pumps.  In 2006 you also have the Intellitec multiplex house system which is all your lighted switches.    

If you have to replace one A/C the front one is ideal because it's on a thermostat by itself and the new Penguin II units are not compatible with the older 5 button comfort control thermostat.   So, you would replace the front A/C with a Penguin II 15K btu heat pump and the front thermostat with the new 10 button Comfort Control II.  

The RJ11 telephone cord these units use to communicate is susceptible to corrosion on the connectors.  I would start by cleaning ALL the RJ11 phone cord connectors.  This includes the back of each thermostat and under each A/C unit.  There will be an RJ11 coupler connector under some of the A/C units assessable by lowering the inside cover and removing the air filters.  Either clean these or replace them with new.   

The large cover under the A/C units has small 7/16" hex bolts on the driver's side.  Remove these to lower the cover and it will hinge downward.  

I like to use Hosa DeOxit spray cleaner.  It's available from Amazon.  

After cleaning all connectors, then reset each thermostat.  Slide the black switch underneath to off.  Hold down both the top and the bottom buttons and slide the switch on.  You should see FF in the window.  

Hopefully after this procedure you see Furnace (as opposed to Heat Pump) on all three zones.  

Yes, for your Aqua Hot front heat exchangers to function you will need to depress the Intellitec Heat switch.  And for the Aqua Hot boiler to heat up you'll need to turn on either the Aqua Hot electric heat element or the diesel burner.  The Aqua Hot electric heat element (after being turned on for at least 2 hours) is only good for a small amount of hot water.  You will need to run the diesel burner for 20 min for full heat and hot water output.  And then select Furnace for each zone on each thermostat.  

I hope this helps.  

 

Edited Sunday at 11:39 PM by vito.a

[Chris and Donna]

Hey Vito, thank's for the reply, all information helps.

All 3 units have heat pumps. 

Back 2 units thermostats show fan , cool, heat pump and furnace and all these work as designed.

Front unit only shows fan, cool and heat pump no furnace. It is the one with the furnace dip switch turned off. I have cleaned the rj11 jacks and replaced 1 inside control box. Will drop decorative panel and see if there are any connectors with pig tails that need cleaning there. (Not an easy task, 4 7/16 bolts 1 each end and 2 in driver side. Takes 2.of us to do it safely.

Do we just blame Monaco for none of this being in the prints or manual. Especially the part about heater craft fan speed control and front furnace exchangers?

 

Chris

Edited Monday at 03:06 AM by Chris and Donna

[Tom Cherry]

11 hours ago, vito.a said:

Wow, a Detroit 60 Series powered Navigator.   That's a nice find. 

Your coach came with three Penguin low profile A/C units.  They may also be heat pumps.  In 2006 you also have the Intellitec multiplex house system which is all your lighted switches.    

If you have to replace one A/C the front one is ideal because it's on a thermostat by itself and the new Penguin II units are not compatible with the older 5 button comfort control thermostat.   So, you would replace the front A/C with a Penguin II 15K btu heat pump and the front thermostat with the new 10 button Comfort Control II.  

The RJ11 telephone cord these units use to communicate is susceptible to corrosion on the connectors.  I would start by cleaning ALL the RJ11 phone cord connectors.  This includes the back of each thermostat and under each A/C unit.  There will be an RJ11 coupler connector under some of the A/C units assessable by lowering the inside cover and removing the air filters.  Either clean these or replace them with new.   

The large cover under the A/C units has small 7/16" hex bolts on the driver's side.  Remove these to lower the cover and it will hinge downward.  

I like to use Hosa DeOxit spray cleaner.  It's available from Amazon.  

After cleaning all connectors, then reset each thermostat.  Slide the black switch underneath to off.  Hold down both the top and the bottom buttons and slide the switch on.  You should see FF in the window.  

Hopefully after this procedure you see Furnace (as opposed to Heat Pump) on all three zones.  

Yes, for your Aqua Hot front heat exchangers to function you will need to depress the Intellitec Heat switch.  And for the Aqua Hot boiler to heat up you'll need to turn on either the Aqua Hot electric heat element or the diesel burner.  The Aqua Hot electric heat element (after being turned on for at least 2 hours) is only good for a small amount of hot water.  You will need to run the diesel burner for 20 min for full heat and hot water output.  And then select Furnace for each zone on each thermostat.  

I hope this helps. 

OK...as to the FRONT Control Module.  Here is HOW, per Dometic, they will be programmed.  Zone 1 will NOT have any DIPS "ON".  Therefore that Zone is 1, by default. If there is a "FURNACE or HEAT, aka AquaHot" set (pair) of wires going to the AquaHot....which obviously in the FRONT there is, then Furnace (#7?) MUST be ON. 

In your case, there is a connection problem.....ODDS ARE....the Dual Inline cable connectors and the RJ's are NOT making a circuit during the RESET. All the reset does is allow the Thermostat (for that SYSTEM...not a separate system like in the rear bedroom) to "CHECK OUT" and see what is hooked up and how the DIPS are set.  The FF that you should get means they had a GOOD "Handshake" as some techs say.  NO FF...YOU GOTTA A PROBLEM.

NOW, it really gets HEADY...

 

So far all seems WELL and most of the information is correct.  There are a few items that I would quibble with, based on helping folks work on their units.

The 2006, 7 and 8 Dynasty's systems...ASSUMING all were the Intellitec MPX control (lighted and dimmable) keypads and NOT switches everywhere was not exactly one of Monaco's finest moments as to "WRITING" the manual. The 08 Manual, which you can download from Monaco (MonacoCoach.com...  I THINK...otherwise GOOGLE) FINALLY got the sequence or the way the Intellitec switches for the Aquahot correctly WRITTEN or written in a way that most folks can understand.

I know a LOT of people use the DETOX IT cleaner.  I have used a variety of cleaners over the year...some work...others destroyed older plastic connectors. The way that most have successfully cleaned, without risk of melting or further deteriorating the RJ jacks and inline connectors is simple Isopropyl Alcohol and a Q-Tip.  I also recommend order spare, actually replacing...if you have to clean at least one, of the Dual Inline connectors from Amazon. The vibration and the potential for moisture causes circuit failures.  BTW.  The ENTIRE CCC (the original 5 button) and the CCC2 (10 button and how all Dometic systems are made today) is a Multiplexed SYSTEM.  The power for the Thermostats comes from every Control Module in each HVAC unit.  There is NO POWER or 12 VDC to any Thermostat.

They are NOT PHONE CABLES.  Read the Dometic install manual. YES, they use RJ connectors.  BUT, they are DATA COMMUNICATION cables.  The cable is what is commonly called, in some electronic's circles, as a CROSSOVER.  The termination on each is different.  The colors and positions on a Phone Cable are the same.  NOT on the Dometic Data Communication cables.  Many folks have failed to understand and also have used phone cables in their troubleshooting and then been totally perplexed.

OK...as to the FRONT Control Module.  Here is HOW, per Dometic, they will be programmed.  Zone 1 will NOT have any DIPS "ON".  Therefore that Zone is 1, by default. If there is a "FURNACE or HEAT, aka AquaHot" set (pair) of wires going to the AquaHot....which obviously in the FRONT there is, then Furnace (#7?) MUST be ON. 

In your case, there is a connection problem.....ODDS ARE....the Dual Inline cable connectors and the RJ's are NOT making a circuit during the RESET. All the reset does is allow the Thermostat (for that SYSTEM...not a separate system like in the rear bedroom) to "CHECK OUT" and see what is hooked up and how the DIPS are set.  The FF that you should get means they had a GOOD "Handshake" as some techs say.  NO FF...YOU GOTTA A PROBLEM.

DO NOT DO ANYTHING OVERWHELMING and tear into any thing up front.  The SIMPLE TEST...or SEE IF IT WORKS...a Paper Clip. OK...look at the Aquahot Control Panel.  Make sure the LOW VOLTAGE alarm light is NOT on.  Use the paperclip to reset it.  SOME are PICKY and will use the end of a Q-TIP or a Wooden Q-Tip (electronics cleaning). 

OK...we have about 5 different sets (scanned as well as the OEM CD's).  BUT, the 2006 scanned is the ONLY one (maybe they forgot to scan it) without the INFAMOUS HVAC LAYOUT.  SO...it is BELOW.  YES...if you have the Intellitec MPX, which you do...then this print is correct....

NOW Open up the AH system and find the CONTROL PANEL.  Use the Paper Clip to Jumper... #1 Thermo+ & #1 Thermo-.  BTW....these wires do NOT have any polarity.  NOBODY has figured out WHY the were labeled + & -.  That is the SAME as the Front Control Module "calling for heat".  HERE IS SOMETHING TO UNDERSTAND.  The HVAC controllers in the units have TWO WIRES...often called BLUE as sometimes they were or were that on Controller...  BTW the Controller is called, by Dometic as the AC CONTROL(LER)...not a Module...but we call it that.  When the Thermostat calls for HEAT.  ALL the controller does is "MAKE A CIRCUIT".  Folk often (USUALLY) say....what is the VOLTAGE.  It maybe has VOLTAGE, but no one has, to my knowledge measured it...or I haven't. The contacts on the Controller for the Thermostat are DRY.  All they do is make a circuit. There is a relay that closes.  There is NOT a voltage signal sent from the Controller.  Think of it as a "light switch leg" as the electricians call a wire running to a remote light or wall switch.  SO, you JUMPER...same as the Controller saying.   GIVE ME HEAT.

IF the Fans work and eventually you get heat...then the AH panel is OK.  BUT, if you JUMPER IT...and NADA....then issues.  

NOW, the most common (95% if I can make a "guess" for emphasis) of the time it is the Connectors.  And cleaning will usually cure it.  BUT, I have had to clean at least twice....on one of mine.  Have a SPARE connector for next time...It is working...why mess with it.

If the Thermostat does NOT read FF....then the next steps.  Remove the Thermostat from the wall.  Clean the terminals and plug in.  

BTW...the TWO "wires" with RJ's...they have NO polarity.  Designed that way.  Either one will send or daisy chain the system.  

Next Up...if now JOY...then take the Thermostat over the the unit.  Pick EITHER of the two wires hanging DOWN (from the roof top.  Plug in the Thermostat.  Do the RESET.   SWITCH OFF.  Mode and Zone HELD IN...Then turn on.  If that doesn't work...then pull the rear thermostat and try it.  THEN...you KNOW you have a defective Control unit.  Swap it with the one of the Rear bedroom unit.  Take a picture of the DIPS.  Those TWO should be identical as they are BOTH Zone 1 with HEAT...That should do it.

ANOTHER NO NO.  STOP using the SWITCH on the Thermostats...  LEAVE THEM ON.  Use the MODE button and cycle to OFF. The switches are PRONE to failure.  

NOW...LOOK AT THE PRINT.  Your system is a bit screwy. You DO, somewhere in the BOWELS of the center, have a REMOTE ZONE or HVAC Controller.  It is EXACTLY like the ones in the HVAC, except sold and packaged for a Stand Alone Zone.  You can STILL purchase, NEW the Controllers for the roof top and the remotes.

ONE FINAL THING TO CLUTTER YOUR BRAIN.  That Remote Controller does NOT have any 12 VDC going to it.  OMG...how does it function.  Technically, Dometic states that ONLY ONE of the Controllers needs 12 VDC...and then the POWER for the Thermostats as well as OTHER units, without 12 VDC, comes from the Data Communications cables...

NOW...you are armed.  Seek counseling...re-read this.  This is how it works and how you test and isolate.

Good Luck...

 

2007 DYNASTY & UP AQUAHOT AND HVAC PRINT.pdf

[Jetjockey]

For jumper I like to use a low amp automotive fuse.. in the event you create short the fuse will protect the system.