Both GFIs are tripping.

[Tom Wallis]

I'm Stumped. In my new to me 2002 HR Imperial there are two GFI breakers in the inverter panel in the bedroom. We've had this coach for about a month and everything was fine. Now, while parked at home and plug into 50amps, I've found both GFI breakers tripped. When I try to rest them the trip instantly. They control most of the outlets in the coach. There is nothing plugged in to any of the outlets. If I turn off the main breaker and reset them then turn the main breaker back on it takes 2 or 3 seconds then they both trip simultaneously. I would start looking for a wiring problem or try replacing them but in my thinking the only thing they have in common is the inverter. They trip whether on shore, generator or inverter.

Any thoughts.

[tmw188]

So I take it you haven’t been to a CG yet?

Is your 50a service at home a newly installed service? I would check your 50a service at home and be sure it is grounded properly that would be the easiest first step IMO. Check tightness of your grounds and commons in both your mh and on that 50a service. That’s a start. 

[Tom Cherry]

37 minutes ago, Tom Wallis said:

I'm Stumped. In my new to me 2002 HR Imperial there are two GFI breakers in the inverter panel in the bedroom. We've had this coach for about a month and everything was fine. Now, while parked at home and plug into 50amps, I've found both GFI breakers tripped. When I try to rest them the trip instantly. They control most of the outlets in the coach. There is nothing plugged in to any of the outlets. If I turn off the main breaker and reset them then turn the main breaker back on it takes 2 or 3 seconds then they both trip simultaneously. I would start looking for a wiring problem or try replacing them but in my thinking the only thing they have in common is the inverter. They trip whether on shore, generator or inverter.

Any thoughts.

FIRST... let's work on some questions...  YES, the fact that the GENNY trips as well as 50 Amp Trips is TELLING..

So, as suggested.  TIME for the (Probably NEVER BEEN DONE) Electrical PM.  The drill.  POWER OFF, Genny CB (on it) OFF and Solar Disconnected or covered.  It is NOT necessary to kill the battery switches.

Start in the Sub Panel.  Pull the cover.  TIGHTEN EVER TERMINAL YOU SEE.  Then, "pop out" or lift up each CB (including the GFCI) and unseat it...and then pop it back into place...

Same for the Main panel...save the main breaker....do the same.  TIGHTEN all terminal.  Reseat, especially, the TWO 30 amp Breakers.

NOW back to the ATS.  Do the same TIGHEN UP ALL.  

Don;t know HOW your cord or shore is plugged in or on a reel or a J-Box.  You need to locate that Junction BOX (on prints) and go inside and CHECK it.

That is ALL you can do...you have a ISSUE that is COMMON to BOTH LINES...and the Inverter is the ONLY COMMON connection...but it COULD be a loose NEUTRAL.  THAT would do it...

OK....NOW RUN you Test.  NO JOY....then this is the NEXT step.

You are going to have to REMOVE the Inverter.  SIMPLE.  Pull the Battery Cables.  NOW...you have TWO incoming lines...a 30 amp breaker on each side.  There are TWO 30 AMP outputs.  You pull the cables (labeling of COURSE) and you wire nut them together.  Effectively REMOVING the Inverter's Internal ATS.

IF that don't fix it...then the REAL chore begins.

 

[tmw188]

2 hours ago, tmw188 said:

So I take it you haven’t been to a CG yet?

Is your 50a service at home a newly installed service? I would check your 50a service at home and be sure it is grounded properly that would be the easiest first step IMO. Check tightness of your grounds and commons in both your mh and on that 50a service. That’s a start. 

Sorry I had forgotten the fact you had the same issue with the Gen running too. Good luck you’ll find it.

[Tom Wallis]

2 hours ago, tmw188 said:

So I take it you haven’t been to a CG yet?

Is your 50a service at home a newly installed service? I would check your 50a service at home and be sure it is grounded properly that would be the easiest first step IMO. Check tightness of your grounds and commons in both your mh and on that 50a service. That’s a start. 

I have been to CGs and my 50amp service a home has been in operation with this and my previous coach for several years. Also, my Hughes Autoformer has all green lights.

Tom Cherry, I will try your suggestions. I do have a power cord reel. I'm hoping for the loose ground solution. I leaving tomorrow for a very short 2 night trip to my son's. It won't be much fun with no working outlets.

[96 EVO]

Since it happens on gen and shore, you can count out the cord reel.

[Tom Cherry]

20 minutes ago, 96 EVO said:

Since it happens on gen and shore, you can count out the cord reel.

Good Catch.  SO, don't chase the J-Box down.  Thanks, Ben

BUT, there has to be a common issue...and if it were something like a "Bad defrost coil" in a refrigerator, it would only be on THAT side of the Sub Panel.

I THINK you said it happened with NOTHING plugged in.  SO...a LINE issue.  Probably a HOT high resistance connection.  Easier to do the PM and THEN bypass the Inverter...

The INVERTER is the ONLY COMMON issue...if it is NOT a connection issue.  Folks have had GFCI's trip before...but NEVER in TANDEM...

HMMMMM.. an IDEA.  OFF the wall, but easy...

TRY THIS.  NO GENNY ON.  Only INVERTER ON.  Hopefully the House batteries are OK for a small test... NO AC ON.

TURN OFF the MAIN PANEL inverter 30 amp CB.  Turn OFF the Sub Panel 30 amp breakers.  The Inverter should NOT BE showing any activity.  NOW.... reset the GFCI's...

Turn on the LINE 1 INVERTER CB in the SUB panel.  IF a GFCI Trips....which ONE...then you know if is PROBABLY not in the Main Panel...for the ATS.  TURN OFF Line 1 CB in Sub..  Reset the GFCI.  Turn on Line 2 Inverter CB in the SUB panel.  If WHICH one TRIPPED?

NOW...  BACK TO THE SUB PANEL.  Power OFF as in EACH 30 AMP Inverter is OFF.  ...  TURN OFF ALL THE BRANCH CIRCUIT BREAKERS in the SUB PANEL.  Leave on each GFCI.  NOW....turn ONE 30 Amp CB in the SUB Panel ON....  WHAT happens.  REVERSE and TRY AGAIN.

If anytime you put POWER to the SUB PANEL...regardless of one or both CB being ON and it trips the GFCI, then odds are....Between the Sub and the Inverter....or INSIDE the Inverter. 

BTW....when doing your PM....also remove the POSITIVE from the INVERTER.  Then open up the power lead area covers.  TIGHTEN ALL THE SCREWS THERE...ON INCOMING and OUTGOING.  There MAY be an issue inside the Inverter...   AND when you finally bypass or pull the wires and temporarily WIRE NUT in place and the GFCI's are GOOD....  INVERTER...

Good luck... 

[Tom Wallis]

Tom Cherry, as per your suggestion, both inverter 30 amp breakers off and inverter on. The Front/Kitchen breaker holds now but the Bath/Rear breaker still trips. Now all breaker are on except the Bath/Rear. However there is still no power to the Front/Kitchen outlets. Then I turn on the 30 amp sub panel inverter breaker and the Front/Kitchen breaker trips. I haven't opened any panels yet, but I guess its time to start.

 

Edited July 11 by Tom Wallis

[Tom Wallis]

Sorry, I missed something. I had only turned off one 30 amp sub panel breaker. that's why only one GFI tripped. When I turn  one inverter breaker one GFI trips an when I turn on the other 30 amp inverter breaker the other GFI trips. I opened the sub panel and tightened all connections removed and replaced the GFI and found no indication of any problems there.

After opening the inverter and checking for problems with connections and finding nothing obvious I went to my Trace inverter manual for a better understanding of how it works. While flipping through the manual this addendum fell out. I have the current version with a neutral relay. Am I correct in thinking that if that relay went out the sub panel would have no neutral and the GFIs would trip. However, how would the other non GFI sub panel circuits work like my frig and microwave?

 

Trace Inverter Addendum_20240711_0002(0).pdf Trace Inverter Addendum 2_20240711_0001(0).pdf

[Tom Cherry]

2 hours ago, Tom Wallis said:

Tom Cherry, as per your suggestion, both inverter 30 amp breakers off and inverter on. The Front/Kitchen breaker holds now but the Bath/Rear breaker still trips. Now all breaker are on except the Bath/Rear. However there is still no power to the Front/Kitchen outlets. Then I turn on the 30 amp sub panel inverter breaker and the Front/Kitchen breaker trips. I haven't opened any panels yet, but I guess its time to start.

 

OK...Thanks for the SECOND POST.  IT is great...but SPOOKS ME... FORGIVE ME FOR NOT EDITING...it is late and I had written MOST of this before your second post came in...but it DOES illustrate what you have.  NOW...

Look at the diagram.  That is called a DUAL IN - Dual OUT.   don’t know if you are familiar with how your invvrter and the whole system works. Most lower end coaches don’t have the diversity of circuits. You have a DUAL IN-DUAL OUT inverter configuration.  Most of us have a single in-dual out.  Your configuration gives you diversity so you can have up to 30 amp on each side or leg.  We have 30 a in, but there are only two 20 A out….

look at the subpanel.  Your inverter is fed from two separate lines….then it is split into two separate lines out like having TWO inverters….  The sub panel has TWO 30 amp breakers.  These are incoming.  That panel has two totally disconnected sets of circuits. Breakers 1, 3, 5, & 7 are one side.  One of them in incoming power… there is a GCFI ALSO. .One GCFI feeds circuits NEAR the sinks up front.  It also feeds some NOT near, but one GCFI controls all the outlets up front.  Whatever else, or the other two 20 A breakers will WORK,  They are stand alone breakers…..not on the GFCI SIDE.

NOW CB 2, 4, 6, & 8 are the OTHER side….call it side 1 and side 2 or line 1 and line 2.  Arrangement is same. 30A INCOMING.  A GFCI.  That goes to the rear outlets that are near water…..and not near water.  The other two are open.  Odds are….the Microwave is on a standard breaker.  GFCI trips….that does NOT impact it.  Refrigerator is same….residential or Gas.  It is NOT on the GCFI.

If your head hurts….take 2 aspiring and read again in the morning….LOL.  This is the MOST confusing concept for a non electrically inclined (and also some that are) to understand. IT GETS WORSE.

Inside the inverter is a. AUTOMATIC Transfer Switch.  It has TWO poles or two sides.  Incoming power on line1 30A breaker comes in….if the Inverter “sees or reads” 120 VAC….the ATS stays CLOSED…OK - NOW that finished my "Inverter 101"

NOW...you also, in your second POST gave me some info....which I really EXPECTED.  BUT, what is NOW DRIVING ME BONKERS....this setup is a perfect way for an OPEN Neutral.  NOW that WOULD be a major ISSUE if this was 240 VAC.  To further, and I say this will all due respect as well the fact that I am TEACHING...it is COMPLICATED.  IF you loose a NEUTRAL on the MH on the incoming power.  The Circuits say... WAIT A MINUTE...I gotta have a BUDDY or a NETURAL.  When the 50 A service (which I hope you understand is ACTUALLY a 230 CIRCUIT...we just do NOT have any 220 devices...OK...some did...but NOT COMMON).  THEN the Line 1 gets upset.  It take what it can find... Line 2 is also upset.  THEN, because they can't find their USUAL mates....they seek out each other.  BINGO...there will up to 175 VAC on BOTH AC legs.  That FRIES motors and TV's and such.

BUT...this is a SPLIT 120 Circuit...so there is NO DEADLY (KILLS THINGS) issues

BUT...it is PROBABLY the problem.  If there is NO NETUTRAL, then the GFCI is gonna WAIL and PITCH A FIT.  SO...here is the best advice.

Look on page 8-215.  Go buy a simple 120 VAC Circuit (outlet tester) with the lights.  TURN OFF the TWO GFCI.  unplug the Microwave.  ODDS ARE...you are gonna get a OMG set of LIGHTS.  The NEUTRAL will be GONE.  The GROUND pin is actually carrying the other side (Neutral) of the circuit

NEXT...go to the Refrigerator outlet outlet.  SAME DEAL. I'll bet that is GONE...and OMG lights.

Finally...  Find the Circuit 8.  Test it.

IF they all show NO NEUTRAL...then that's IT.  The GFCI ain't gonna put up with the SHENANIGANS...  IT TRIPPED OFF.  ODDS ARE...  NEW INVERTER. It is NOT cost effective to fix a 22 YO inverter.  THE GOOD NEWS...  A Magnum will drop right in.  YOU need the MS2812 (that is a 2800 and you will have MORE power...the wiring is identical so NO CHANGES).  YOU will need to call Magnum and make sure you get the DUAL IN DUAL OUT model.  Then, when it comes...it is a SNAP to install.  You WILL have to run the NEW phone line for the REMOTE.  Oder the ME-RC remote.  If you have an AGS, then you will have to order the Magnum AGS and install it.  IT WILL work but you have to read and connect the RIGHT lines...  There will be a Battery Temp sensor.  Run the phone line.

NOW...for your WORK AROUND.  You need FOUR WIRE NUTS... They are probably THE YELLOW ones.  READ the package.  You want to be able to attach TWO #10 Wires....  NOW, you CAN also buy a LENGTH of #10 Romex.  Strip off the jacket.  You will have to DISCONNECT the NETUTRAL from the INCOMING LINE 1....and the OUTGOING Line 2.   A short Jumper will work if you do NOT want to strip back the Romex.  I would use a Short Jumper and Jumper the LINE1 to LINE 1 (in and out) repeat for Line 2 (in and out).  That is SAFE.... THEN use your circuit tester.  ODDS ARE...ALL GREEN.  The GFCI should not trip...

That's it...

[Tom Wallis]

Yes, I think I understand all of that. But according to the addendum the neutral to the entire sub panel comes through the neutral relay in the inverter. One way the relay connects the the sub panel neutral to neutral in, and the other way it connects the sub panel neutral to ground. That made me wonder if the other non GFI circuits in the sub panel were working through the ground. So I plugged a circuit tester into the microwave outlet and it shows the circuit is good. I just may have to take two asprin  button everything up and go without outlets tomorrow. I do have the microwave plug and a plug in the closet that work. I'll make sure I have some extension cords.

Correction: I don't have the current version. I should have neutral to the sub panel all the time but it connects neutral to ground in the off position. That doesn't help though.

My Inverter_20240711_0003(0).pdf

Edited July 12 by Tom Wallis

[Frank McElroy]

Since both GFI's trip, that tells me power is draining to ground and not flowing through the neutral wire.  So either a loose neutral or so much humidity in the outlets that current is draining to ground or two blown GFI outlets (the last two are unlikely possibilities).

However, the microwave circuit tests good but verify that the microwave circuit works under load.  

I'm thinking you could have a failed neutral relay inside the inverter.  If you only use the inverter to charge and not invert, you could bypass the neutral relay and see if the GFI's trip.

[Tom Wallis]

4 hours ago, Frank McElroy said:

Since both GFI's trip, that tells me power is draining to ground and not flowing through the neutral wire.  So either a loose neutral or so much humidity in the outlets that current is draining to ground or two blown GFI outlets (the last two are unlikely possibilities).

However, the microwave circuit tests good but verify that the microwave circuit works under load.  

I'm thinking you could have a failed neutral relay inside the inverter.  If you only use the inverter to charge and not invert, you could bypass the neutral relay and see if the GFI's trip.

Tom Cherry gave me a phone call and suggested bypassing the neutral relay in the inverter, so I tried it. Then I had no inverter or charger because the neutral for them was missing. Seemed like a good idea at the time. So I put it back like it was. I have the early version and the diagram on the cover shows that the only thing that relay does is connect neutral to ground so I figured if it failed that's why the neutral was grounded. So I found that ground wire where it connects to the inverter housing and disconnect it. Nothing changed. As far as humidity, well it was 104 here today with humidity in the single digits. Tomorrow I'm going try replacing the breakers. Then I'm out of ideas apart from replacing the inverter. I do appreciate any and all input. So thanks.

[Tom Cherry]

Well, when your wife chases you off the computer and you "THINK" you remember what you saw and you work with Magnums and have a fuzzy idea of how their ATS works....  THINGS happen. SO...after seeing your two posts, I pulled the Magnum PRINT.  I THOUGHT the Magnum had a Dual Pole ATS as in Hot 1 and Hot 2.  NOPE...they appear, or at least there is no diagram like Tom has, to actually switch the Neutral...which I KNOW that Frank has committed to memory ....  I have not.  Look at the PDF below.

Magnum explains it in better, to me detail.  Your print shows the HOTS being switched...which obviously explains why you LOST the whole circuit.

BUT, if Frank is right..and he is rarely wrong...the Neutral Relay is TOAST.  

All this hit me as I woke up....this morning...  that my BYPASS the Neutral might "mess" up the inverter.  Pulled your final print.  YES, you lost the HOTS.  In a Magnum, you would NOT have lost them....unless there is also another relay which they don't disclose....

I THINK that bypassing the Neutral on the Magnum WOULD have worked...so, I at least get partial credit...  LOL...moving on....

@Frank McElroy FWIW, Tom really has a good grasp of this, despite professing NOT to be an electrician. He was fully conversant on the DI-DO system.

He HAD used a plug in Circuit Tester and the other THREE Circuits (Refrigerator, Microwave and Desk Lamp) were OK.  I assumed that, maybe he only tested the microwave..  But the plug in showed a good circuit.

My next step would be to totally bypass the inverter....which was the next step after doing the electrical PM.  Then, IF BOTH GFCI's TRIP, it is NOT in the Inverter.  BUT, if the GFCI's "HOLD", yes... Inverter.

I discussed that the MS2812 would be a Plug and Play and I would opt for the extra 800 Watts in case he upgrades to a Res Refer...but this is his call after looking at the price differential between the 2000 and 2800 Watt.  The 2800 was what would have been in his MH had the Res Refer been an option....and I THINK it was or maybe that was listed for the Dynasty.

He is also going to do a bit "exploring" if it is the Inverter....as we have had ONE person that found a burned or charged Ground Wire and replaced it (on a Magnum) and is still using it.

Frank,

FWIW.  The 2002 Imperial which is supposed to be a TWIN of the Dynasty has a "Different" manual.  In that when I have looked at later years, the page numbers were exactly the same.  I started to reference the Dynasty...but got curious.  There are about 27 (memory)  odd pages MORE of stuff in the Dynasty before the Sub Panel figure.  211 in the Imperial and 238 in the Dynasty.  I BELIEVE this was when Monaco (HQ) did not have as tighter controls on the manual as in later years. This was probably an Elkhart MH...  NEVER EVER assume anything on a Monaco...

@Tom Wallis Too early to Text you.  Will be tied up this morning.  If things get hectic, send Frank a PM.  If he is available he will help out.

I think your are gonna find that when you remove the Inverter...ALL is well.  But, if not try the new GFCI...  

Magnum Neutral Ground Safety Relay Explanation.pdf

[MHRookie]

Tom,

     If you have to replace the inverter, another option is a Xantrex SW3012.  It’s a lot closer to plug & play than a magnum.  Xantrex has a kit that uses the existing phone cable for the remote and you need to cut splice both the outside wires (switching colors).  Something to consider.  Either direction you go is an upgrade since they are both “ pure sine” power.  Better for electronics.

[Tom Wallis]

Update: The problem seems to be resolved.

First, thank you all for your valuable input, it wast very helpful to the process of sorting this out. Tom Cherry was especially helpful and his last post about the Neutral Ground Safety Relay was very helpful in understand the inverter system.

It seems the problem was actually with the two GFI breakers. I think we all kind of started with the assumption that it probably wasn't them because why would two GFIs on separate circuits go bad at once? However, on Friday I was leaving on a two day trip and most of my outlets were dead so I went to the hardware store and picked up a regular breaker before we left (they didn't have the GFI breaker) . When I got to my son's we put it in and that circuit was working and the oulet tester read green on all the plugs. I immediately ordered the correct GFI breaker from Amazon. I got home today, the breaker arrived and I put it in the other circuit and all is well. All outlets are working and they all read green in the tester. I tried them both on shore power and on inverter power and everything checks out.  All I need to do now is order one more GFI breaker and replace the regular one I installed.

Here is what I think caused the failure. While it was parked here at home I needed to unplug it from my 50 amp line. The breaker for that line is inside the shop and I didn't want to walk all the way in there to turn it off. The plugs on both cords were very stiff and I had to wiggle them a little to get them apart. There was a little bit of a stutter in the disconnect. That's when I think it happened. Lesson learned. However it could have just as easily damaged the neutral ground relay but I don't think it did.

I would like to test the neutral ground relay but I can't figure out any way to do that without disconnecting a bunch of wires from the inverter first. I think I will trust that having both a working GFI and a good reading on the outlet tester means all is well.

Thanks again.

[Tom Cherry]

8 hours ago, Tom Wallis said:

Update: The problem seems to be resolved.

First, thank you all for your valuable input, it wast very helpful to the process of sorting this out. Tom Cherry was especially helpful and his last post about the Neutral Ground Safety Relay was very helpful in understand the inverter system.

It seems the problem was actually with the two GFI breakers. I think we all kind of started with the assumption that it probably wasn't them because why would two GFIs on separate circuits go bad at once? However, on Friday I was leaving on a two day trip and most of my outlets were dead so I went to the hardware store and picked up a regular breaker before we left (they didn't have the GFI breaker) . When I got to my son's we put it in and that circuit was working and the oulet tester read green on all the plugs. I immediately ordered the correct GFI breaker from Amazon. I got home today, the breaker arrived and I put it in the other circuit and all is well. All outlets are working and they all read green in the tester. I tried them both on shore power and on inverter power and everything checks out.  All I need to do now is order one more GFI breaker and replace the regular one I installed.

Here is what I think caused the failure. While it was parked here at home I needed to unplug it from my 50 amp line. The breaker for that line is inside the shop and I didn't want to walk all the way in there to turn it off. The plugs on both cords were very stiff and I had to wiggle them a little to get them apart. There was a little bit of a stutter in the disconnect. That's when I think it happened. Lesson learned. However it could have just as easily damaged the neutral ground relay but I don't think it did.

I would like to test the neutral ground relay but I can't figure out any way to do that without disconnecting a bunch of wires from the inverter first. I think I will trust that having both a working GFI and a good reading on the outlet tester means all is well.

Thanks again.

Glad I and MANY OTHERS were able to help.  

First..  Don't buy any lottery tickets and see if you can get the demon possessing you to exerocised...  LOL...Moving along.

Second.  Carry your Yellow Wire Nuts and the two pieces (assuming you had to use that) when you bypassed the Inverter.  You have the skill set...so you can rock on.  A Jumper Cable will be handy so that when you Drive...you can REALLY charge the House with FULL current Alternator Battery.

Past that..  Move on and enjoy.  Put the old girl (the Inverter) back in her room and talk nice to her....

GREAT...really GREAT.  

[Rikadoo]

Mornin everyone, so i have a question about gfi’s is there a difference between household style vs rv? I ask cause i reciently replaced the one in the bathroom cause it would trip all the time when plugged into “clean” shore power, (clean = power watchdog, did not have any faults) and my other gfi was fine. So i went to the hardware store an bought a gfi, NOW on shore power all is GREAT, yet when im on the inverter at idel voltage after about 2 min it trips.

p.s. When the genny is running its all good as well

if there is a difference in gfi’s what kind of spec am i looking for when shopping for them?

[MHRookie]

54 minutes ago, Rikadoo said:

Mornin everyone, so i have a question about gfi’s is there a difference between household style vs rv? I ask cause i reciently replaced the one in the bathroom cause it would trip all the time when plugged into “clean” shore power, (clean = power watchdog, did not have any faults) and my other gfi was fine. So i went to the hardware store an bought a gfi, NOW on shore power all is GREAT, yet when im on the inverter at idel voltage after about 2 min it trips.

p.s. When the genny is running its all good as well

if there is a difference in gfi’s what kind of spec am i looking for when shopping for them?

You’ll have to do a Google search for the few brands that work well with inverters.  A couple are:

Leviton and pass&seymore/legrand….  

There is NO special RV GFCI vs home.

Edited August 23 by MHRookie

[Tom Cherry]

40 minutes ago, Rikadoo said:

Mornin everyone, so i have a question about gfi’s is there a difference between household style vs rv? I ask cause i reciently replaced the one in the bathroom cause it would trip all the time when plugged into “clean” shore power, (clean = power watchdog, did not have any faults) and my other gfi was fine. So i went to the hardware store an bought a gfi, NOW on shore power all is GREAT, yet when im on the inverter at idel voltage after about 2 min it trips.

p.s. When the genny is running its all good as well

if there is a difference in gfi’s what kind of spec am i looking for when shopping for them?

IN A WORD....YES.  There are THREE brands that are recommended (see the older manual) by Magnum....so presumably....this impacts ALL Inverters...PSW or MSW.

Eaton Wiring Devices (I am prejudiced...I worked for Cooper Industries and they BOUGHT Eagle...rebranded it as Cooper and then EATON bought Cooper)... I KNOW the plants that make them...

Leviton and Hubbell.  

NOW....check the SPECS.....  TWO THINGS.

FIRST....you can NOT BLINDLY install a GFCI.  WHY...  There was a MAJOR redesign, per the NEC...and one BRAND (likened to the RECENT MISWIRING OF AN ATS) or two that ARE DIFFERENT.  It USED to be that a GFCI (receptacle) type was ALWAYS configured the same.  Turn the GROUND PIN DOWN (as most houses are done...NOT so in Commercial) and the LINE or INCOMING side of the GFCI was on the TOP.  THEN the LOAD or the PROTECTED Downstream outlets were on the BOTTOM TERMINALS.  NOW...due to Local CODE and the GOD LIKE Electrical Inspectors, MANY GFCI's MUST be installed with the GROUND PIN UP.  There in lies the DILEMMA...

If one buys a GFCI and then, without LOOKING or CHECKING or PHOTOGRAPHING the rear of the OLD one....and has a BRAND that has the REVERSE configuration....then ONE has "MESSED UP" and it will trip...

SO....having absorbed all that....then it is REALLY time to mess with your "Electrical Brain"...  SO PLEASE read carefully.

FIRST..  It is recommended GOOD PRACTICE to replace any GFCI that is 15 years OLDER.  They don't AGE WELL.  They trip needlessly.  There is a REASON....explained later...  BUT, I would tell any member to replace the GFCI Usually only ONE...but there WERE some models with TWO).  NOW this is for a conventional SETUP.  Dynasty and above and some of the early Windsors have a SUBPANEL with GFCI Breakers.  They also don't age well...  BUT, this is primarily for GFCI Receptacle one.

NEXT....MOST are 20 AMP.  it is a COMMON mistake NOT TO REMOVE or pull out and READ FIRST.  I THINK (but could be WRONG) that MOST Monaco's were 20 AMP...but LOOK at the rating or the markings on the ONE that is in place....usually, you can pull it OUT enough to see the AMPS.

THEN....read and photograph the wiring. It is a GOOD THINK to put a Masking Tape label on the LINE IN...  That way...the OTHER one or TWO pieces of Romex are the LOAD...  THEN, with the NEW ONE...>READ<  Make sure you put LINE to LINE and LOAD (the downstream) to LOAD.

OK... NOW....What do you do?  WELL FIRST, you need a DVOM or Volt meter.  You MUST disconnect the BLACKS from all the terminals.  THEN measure (CAREFULLY....LIVE VOLTAGE) the Blacks.  The HOT or has POWER BLACK is the LINE (incoming).  THUS, the others are the LOAD...  There may be ONE or HOPEFULLY TWO....outgoing or DOWNSTREAM.

SO....first verify the brand.  A Lowes Utilitec ain't exactly what I would use anywhere....buy (Amazon or GOOD electrical Suppliers) stock the Eaton or the other brands....

Next... Identify the LINE or HOT Romex...

NOW....to WHY you MAY have an issue.  Monaco was LAZY.  They sometimes had TWO LOAD wires (Romex). BTW...FWIW....the LINE IN is from the INVERTER.  ALL your internal Outlets are FED through the 30A breaker (inverter) to the INVERTER....then there is an ATS inside the Inverter.  IF there is 120 VAC coming is... (Genny or AC) then the Inverter passes or lets the VOLTAGE come on through.  BUT, if there is NO AC incoming power...the Inverter switches to INVERTING...and provides AC power.

OK....  WHY may there be TWO LOAD wires?  Simple.  Monaco did not do their job.  ONE of them, odds are, goes to the Refrigerator ICEMAKER outlet behind the refrigerator.  THERE ARE TWO.  One is the AC/GENNY ONLY Ref HEATER (gas) circuit.  IT is NOT on the INVERTER.  IT only has power when plugged in or on GENNY.  The OTHER is the ICEMAKER.  THEREIN lies the issue.  It is a COMMON occurrence...that the Icemaker MOLD's will have a TINY bit of current...milliamps of leakage.  As they age...the leakage gets worse.  In addition, if you have  RES REFER plugged in to the INVERTER Icemaker outlet...which is what EVERYONE DOES... then the Defrost cycle also uses heaters.  The icemaker mold will actually got HOT and burn you if it comes one and one has their fingers doing something and nudges it.  TRUST ME ON THAT.  The melting is the ONLY way that the ice cubes will EJECT...otherwise they would be FROZEN to the mold

IF you have TWO leads...then you MUST determine if the ICEMAKER outlet is on the LOAD SIDE.  IF it IS....it needs to be MOVED.  NOW....deep in my brain...you said you have TWO GFCI's.... There was a model or two with a very CONVOLUTED circuit layout that had TWO GFCI's....and you have ONE of THEM.  I do NOT believe that it is possible to ACTUALLY "FIX" your GFCI issue...if you have a LEAKY or a HEATING element in the Refrigerator.

Here is the circuit.  AND Thomas Edison would have been confused. PLEASE TRY TO FOLLOW.  You have TWO GFCI's.  NOTE that one feeds the OTHER.  The first one....has the LINE IN and LINE OUT (Load) on the SAME terminals.  That is the one marked BATHROOM RECEPTACLE.  That ONLY impacts THAT GFCI.  There is NO DOWNSTREAM LOAD to be protected.  It is just there as a SINGLE POINT OF USE one.

NOW follow on to the LAVATORY one.  It is the ISSUE.  ALL the circuits on it are DOWNSTREAM.  Highly CONTORTED...but if you CHASE the LOAD side or the Protected side....it eventually ENDS UP powering the ICEMAKER Circuit.

SO...do THIS.  Get a KNOW and RECOMMENDED GFCI.   Then TEST the LINE side of the circuit (using the Black).  THEN wire it in.  The LINE is the INCOMING....the LOAD is the OUTGOING... 

HOPEFULLY that will correct it.  It MUST BE WIRED CORRECTLY....VERY IMPORTANT.  

THEN, if it keeps TRIPPING...  UNPLUG the LINE from the ICEMAKER outlet.  If it is your RES Refer....then plug it into (use a #14 Gauge Extension cord...the MICROWAVE.  If you need to RUN BOTH...then get a SPLITTER (Amazon sells them.....or a short TWO WIRE or device.  You can also use a short GROUNDED extension cord (14 Gauge) with THREE outlets...  THEN you can run both.  The Microwave and a Res Refer will be OK.  If you have the OEM Gas...then the icemaker will be fine...

That is the ONLY WAY TO TEST.  If you DO have a LEAKY heater (icemaker or the Res Refer), then you are are going to have to install a 1000 Watt Inverter for the Res Refer.....otherwise....replace the Res Refer.  NOTHING IS WRONG WITH IT.  Your HOME RES REFER is on a Standard DEDICATED line....NOT A GFCI.

Unfortunately...you do NOT have the option of moving the WIRING....like many do when there are TWO LINES on the LOAD...

Let us KNOW what happens after you CHECK and/or CORRECT the suspicious NEW GFCI...  If you MISWIRED IT....then try REWRING IT....but I would THEN replace it..

 

 

120 VAC Layout Dip & End and others.pdf

[Rikadoo]

Thanks for all the good info👍