Signal light puzzle.

[RWHenhouse]

I'm stumped.  With the headlights off, all turn signals on my 2004 Safari Panther work normally.  Front, rear, and the one on the mirror arm.  However, when the headlights are turned on:

The light on the left mirror is on constantly, and bright.  The turn signal indicator on the dash is constantly illuminated (but not flashing). The front right running  light by the headlight seems dimmer than it should be.  The rear marker light also seems dim.  When the left turn signal is turned on, there is just a hint of a variation in the light intensity on all the lights that should be blinking.  Certainly not a flash.  If you weren't looking for it, you probably wouldn't notice it.  Everything on the right side is fine.

I discovered this problem late today, and am leaving on a trip {without the moho) early in the AM so won't be able to fiddle with it for a couple weeks.  I wanted to post this while it was fresh in my mind.

Has anyone run into this?

Thanks

Rory

 

 

 

 

[Upsman85]

I had a rear turn signal problem and it turned out to be a bad ground ! 

[RWHenhouse]

Yes, Upsman85, a bad ground is often the problem.  But what has me puzzled is why the indicator light on the mirror arm comes on brightly when the headlights are turned on,  The right side does not.  I don't think the lights on the mirror arms should illuminate unless the turn signal is activated? 

Thanks, Rory

[Upsman85]

The one bad ground to my left tail light had my lights doing crazy stuff !

[RWHenhouse]

When I get back to the beast I'll start checking that.  Thanks for the tip Upsman.

[Dr4Film]

99% of the time it is a bad ground!

If you can't find it, the alternative is to run a new one to a good solid shinny negative ground on the frame.

[1nolaguy]

12 hours ago, RWHenhouse said:

I'm stumped.  With the headlights off, all turn signals on my 2004 Safari Panther work normally.  Front, rear, and the one on the mirror arm.  However, when the headlights are turned on:

The light on the left mirror is on constantly, and bright.  The turn signal indicator on the dash is constantly illuminated (but not flashing). The front right running  light by the headlight seems dimmer than it should be.  The rear marker light also seems dim.  When the left turn signal is turned on, there is just a hint of a variation in the light intensity on all the lights that should be blinking.  Certainly not a flash.  If you weren't looking for it, you probably wouldn't notice it.  Everything on the right side is fine.

I discovered this problem late today, and am leaving on a trip {without the moho) early in the AM so won't be able to fiddle with it for a couple weeks.  I wanted to post this while it was fresh in my mind.

Has anyone run into this?

Thanks

Rory

 

 

 

 

Hi Rory, I have a 2005 Safari Cheetah and it was (has) had issues that are similar for years. In each case it has turned out to be in some way related to bad ground issues. My solution has been to systematically re-due the chassis grounds for all chassis lighting. IN some cases this has been as simple and cleaning and refastening the original ground while in other cases I have run new ground wire and connections completely. This was particularly required with the brake lights where the original ground wire was shared by all the tail lights and located in the back and exposed to a lot of road grime. 

[Upsman85]

Yes on my dynasty the ground lug was mounted on the drivers side engine compartment behind left taillight. 

[RWHenhouse]

Thanks guys.  I'll start with Upsman85's solution (might get lucky) and start checking grounds.  I'll post if/when I get it solved  - as I said earlier it will be a few weeks before I get back to base.

[John M]

Well if this is a compromised ground issue then it must be on the headlight circuit because all the other lights work normally with headlights off. Headlights seem to be interfering with the other circuits. But with that in mind i wonder if you have a short circuit situation going on. 
Having said all that I expect if this is a compromised ground issue you’ll find it if y leave the lights turned on for a long time because that bad connection is going to heat up and maybe burn up if left on for a long time so be careful.

just some thoughts.

good luck 

[Tom Cherry]

8 minutes ago, John M said:

Well if this is a compromised ground issue then it must be on the headlight circuit because all the other lights work normally with headlights off. Headlights seem to be interfering with the other circuits. But with that in mind i wonder if you have a short circuit situation going on. 
Having said all that I expect if this is a compromised ground issue you’ll find it if y leave the lights turned on for a long time because that bad connection is going to heat up and maybe burn up if left on for a long time so be careful.

just some thoughts.

good luck 

SIMPLE SUGGESTION.  The headlights are the most “overloaded” circuit and they also are, from a lets BREAK SOMETHING, the worst design.  There is a myriad of circuits and relays prior to the Dimmer Switch.  Smartwheels, if applicable, and such.

Many have had issues with the headlights and one simple modification has resolved the issues and also brightened them up.  The PAYOFF.  The Headlight Dimmer switch no LONGER has to carry the max (20 or 25 A) load on the contacts.  Here is the fix. It has been posted here, but simpler to type again.

Locate the positive headlight wire(s) the road side. One for the HIGH and the other for the LOW.  If you search using “headlight relay” as the key word and then click on Everywhere…choose TOPICS.  Probably at least 10 separate topics.  Many have pictures.  NOW, if you find the pictures, you will that the Dimmer switch is simple.  The headlight circuit “terminals” into the Dimmer…or the center terminal…that is HEADLIGHT ON..  OK Mr Dimmer, YOU decide….HIGH or LOW. So there are TWO wires coming out…H & L.  All the dimmer does is click back and forth.  If you pull off the shroud below the steering column, you can locate the wires.  You want the HIGH and LOW.  They are continue to run to the headlight….then over to the next.

Here’s the fix.  Terminal the wires as in run the HIGH & LOW to TWO (2) through 2 separate relays.  Use the Bosch 20 A 5pin 87/87A relay….same one all over the MH.  Amazon has the REAL Bosch.  Use #12 Stranded Hookup wire.  If you buy a Socket…need 2, then get the one with #12 Wires.  Amazon has.  Read…pay attention most are #14.  Order two inline fuse holders….again #12 wire. 20 A fuse will work.  The bulbs are all 55 WATT.

SO…here is the circuit. Find the Front Run Bay Chassis stud….it will be HOT all the time.  Get 2 crimp on ring terminals for it….run TWO Fused #12 leads from it to the relays.  PIN 30 is where the inline fused wire goes.

NOW…to turn ON or Energize the correct relay….Pin 85 will be Positive….hook up HIGH or LOW (from switch or headlight circuits) there. Hook up a GROUND to Pin 86. This is the coil. NOW when the headlight switch is on….one relay will be energized…change the dimmer switch….the other is energized.  Label each relay…HIGH & LOW.

You ran each of the 20 amp inline fused wire to terminal 30.  From the HIGH Rely, USE PIN 87. run a #12 to the HIGH beam wire on the headlight harness….you can run a new lead over to the OTHER headlight.  Ditto for LOW. 

NOW….you have separate wires to each bulb for each circuit.  Assuming the GROUND is OK, to the  HEADLIGHT FIXTURE….YOU will be GOOD to go. Personally, I’d find the GROUND to the Headlight fixture….then, cut it and run a new GROUND #12.  To each headlight fixture.

If you start cutting and running additional grounds..strange things have happened.  So….new GROUND to each headlight or whatever fixture…cut the OLD incoming…do NOT splice in.  Then you have a FULL 12 VDC (actually 13.8 when driving) to the headlights.  

I’m personally up to at least 10 members that did that. Some had some crazy stuff upstream. That fixed it.  Others wanted brighter headlights. That fixed it. All will get MORE life from the expensive and hard to replace Dimmer switch. A TRIPLE WIN.

Hope this helsp.  Feedback is always great.
 

[RWHenhouse]

Following John's thoughts, maybe the quick fix would to be to take an IR heat gun and and try to ID the bad ground.  My issue may have existing for years, because I really make an effort to avoid driving the old beast in the dark.  Unnecessary where/when we use it in northern latitudes with lots of daylight in the summer (and as Tom pointed out, the headlights are very weak).  I just happened to be going through all systems and found the problem.

I was hoping Tom would chime in.  Tom always seems to know a fairly definitive solution to these problems! 

Thanks guys.   

[JerryW]

I had a similar issue a while back. I unplugged lighting groups in the front of the coach one at a time until the problem disappeared. Then I inspected each light bulb and socket carefully. What I found was that one bulb had been inserted too hard and it bent the contacts in the socket and sent a hot signal to ground

[RWHenhouse]

I got back to the Panther yesterday and continued my investigation. With the headlights on, I found that the J12 connector on the SM 209 Smartwheel Controller was hot, Pin #2 (power to lights) was discolored, the insulation broke off when I unplugged it.  So, I need to replace that.  I pulled the SM 209 off, removed the back cover and had a look, looked okay. As suggested, I need to install relays to reduce the power that this has to handle.  But this was not what was causing my problem.

I found that the left side turn signal wonkiness occurred when just the park lights were on.  I switched the bulbs from left to right, and unplugged and plugged in the connections.  It all looked fine.  And now it all works perfectly....

So, obviously a loose connection somewhere, but nothing obvious. 

Thanks for everyone's suggestions!