2002 Signature; Generator turns itself on??

[Keith Russell]

2002 Monaco sig, series - we have been working in the motorhome redoing the floors and other things at my house. It's been a few week project not working on it regularly but on 3 different mornings my generator was running when we got up in the morning.  I am so confused how this is happening, seems like every 4th or so day it just turns on by itself sometime in the night or morning.  I have left the main switches on and a trickle charger on the batteries.  this morning it was on again so I turned the main switches off so I assume it won't happen again but can anyone tell me why this is happening.

[jacwjames]

There's another thread right now on this subject.

Check the wiring harness on the side of the generator.  This is what connects to the house/chassis wiring, it enables the remote start buttons to start the generator along with the AGS on the inverter.  It's a known problem that moisture gets into the harness.  Take it apart, spray with electric clean and use some dielectric grease on it.

Also check your AGS settings to make sure its not allowing the inverter to start the generator due to low voltage on house batteries.

[Keith Russell]

perfect will do, thanks again

[Keith Russell]

On 8/14/2024 at 8:46 AM, jacwjames said:

There's another thread right now on this subject.

Check the wiring harness on the side of the generator.  This is what connects to the house/chassis wiring, it enables the remote start buttons to start the generator along with the AGS on the inverter.  It's a known problem that moisture gets into the harness.  Take it apart, spray with electric clean and use some dielectric grease on it.

Also check your AGS settings to make sure its not allowing the inverter to start the generator due to low voltage on house batteries.

Since this post I've found that the house batteries were real bad so I changes them and haven't had that problem.  Yesterday I did a service on the generator and then ran it for a few hours after while I did some work on the inside and everything was perfect.  Then today it has been raining all day and I went back in RV to work and I turn on main house switch batteries and noticed the light on my generator switch.  So then I attempted to start it and nothing happened, then I watched light go off and on intermittent and tried again and it started and then died, it kept doing that. So I stopped and watched the light on switch keep going off and on randomly. You mentioned the moisture in harness, I'll look into that hopefully tomorrow, Do y9ou have any other ideas and and detail instruction on harness etc.?  OR how to get to other post about this? Im a idiot with computers, lol

 

Keith

 

 

[jacwjames]

The light on the switch is actually providing a blink code which tells the reason for the generator shutting off. 

You can retrieve the blink code by pressing the stop switch 3 times within 5 seconds. 

The list of blink codes is in your manual. 

[Keith Russell]

I am so lost - feel like many different things are happening.  First, when I turn on house batteries the generator switch is lite up, stays on continues.  you try pressing it and nothing happens.  The hole time you hear taping noise coming from the generator, noise is not it trying start.   stays like this for 10 min then the light went out.  Then the light will go on and off randomly, not like blinking codes.  Finally light when out and we started the generator but it quickly shut down, repeated few times.  Now I was able to see a blink blink blink 1 sec pause and blink blink blink.  meaning is guess 33 but another time I think I saw a 36.  Im so lost with why in beginning light stays on as if it was on and running.  Took panels off and all connections and wires look great.  I did do a complete service on it recently but ran it afterwards for like an hour and everything worked great.  Only thing is we are have heavy rains and moisture in the air and seems to act up then.  Anything would help, thank you in advance

[Tom Cherry]

YOU HAVE A BAD CONNECTION OR you have a CHAFED WIRE

The Onan Generators are a WEIRD BIRD.  They are a NEGATIVE (GROUND) Start and Stop.  Don't ask me...that is how they work.

SO, if the START or STOP wire a remote switch  (Dash or in the Hall) has a short...as in the wire has a NICK and it is rubbing against GROUND...then that is starting the GENNY.  

NOW...that assumes that the AGS IS NOT DEFECTIVE...

When you see the LIGHT....that means that the GROUND SIGNAL is going to the Genny.  It is like you TAPED DOWN the switch.... or took the wire and hooked it up to GROUND.

What you are hearing is the Starter Relay in the GENNY TRYING to start. This will run down a battery.  like you taped the key in your car so that the starter was running all the time.

NOW....I would DISCONNECT the harness from the AGS.  That eliminates that.

Jim talks about the connection.  There is a multiwire connector going to the Genny.  It has a male/female connector.  THAT is where the issue is.  UNPLUG IT.  Spray BOTH ends with WD-40.  If it is OK for NASA (who developed WD-40) to spray connections or such and DISPLACE WATER...it is OK for us dummies.  WD stands for Water Displacing).  NOW...after you get rid of the moisture, use ELECTRONIC (not ELECTRICAL) cleaner (Home Depot and Ace and such sell it .... ELECTRONIC...NOT ELECTRICAL...like you buy at an auto parts store...DO NOT USE ELECTRICAL).

Spray the connectors.  Then plug and UNPLUG the connectors several times.  This sort of polishes or removes the corrosion.  NEXT.  Get a small foil pack or tube of AUTO BULB GREASE (NAPA or AutoZone)  Put a small amount...use a toothpick or small screwdriver on the male metal pins.  THEN PLUG IT IN.  This prevents a reoccurrence of the corrosion and prevents moisture from getting in.  

IF THAT DON'T CURE IT... You need to then find the prints.  Identify the GROUND STARTING WIRE and start to CHASE IT.  It must have a nick and the wire is grounded out.  

 

[Keith Russell]

3 hours ago, Tom Cherry said:

YOU HAVE A BAD CONNECTION OR you have a CHAFED WIRE

The Onan Generators are a WEIRD BIRD.  They are a NEGATIVE (GROUND) Start and Stop.  Don't ask me...that is how they work.

SO, if the START or STOP wire a remote switch  (Dash or in the Hall) has a short...as in the wire has a NICK and it is rubbing against GROUND...then that is starting the GENNY.  

NOW...that assumes that the AGS IS NOT DEFECTIVE...

When you see the LIGHT....that means that the GROUND SIGNAL is going to the Genny.  It is like you TAPED DOWN the switch.... or took the wire and hooked it up to GROUND.

What you are hearing is the Starter Relay in the GENNY TRYING to start. This will run down a battery.  like you taped the key in your car so that the starter was running all the time.

NOW....I would DISCONNECT the harness from the AGS.  That eliminates that.

Jim talks about the connection.  There is a multiwire connector going to the Genny.  It has a male/female connector.  THAT is where the issue is.  UNPLUG IT.  Spray BOTH ends with WD-40.  If it is OK for NASA (who developed WD-40) to spray connections or such and DISPLACE WATER...it is OK for us dummies.  WD stands for Water Displacing).  NOW...after you get rid of the moisture, use ELECTRONIC (not ELECTRICAL) cleaner (Home Depot and Ace and such sell it .... ELECTRONIC...NOT ELECTRICAL...like you buy at an auto parts store...DO NOT USE ELECTRICAL).

Spray the connectors.  Then plug and UNPLUG the connectors several times.  This sort of polishes or removes the corrosion.  NEXT.  Get a small foil pack or tube of AUTO BULB GREASE (NAPA or AutoZone)  Put a small amount...use a toothpick or small screwdriver on the male metal pins.  THEN PLUG IT IN.  This prevents a reoccurrence of the corrosion and prevents moisture from getting in.  

IF THAT DON'T CURE IT... You need to then find the prints.  Identify the GROUND STARTING WIRE and start to CHASE IT.  It must have a nick and the wire is grounded out.  

 

ok I will look for the male/female connection on genny, I believe I saw 4 thicker wires going inside the front of the genny on the opposite side of the switch panel.  would that connection be by the switch and hour meter or on the other side where the main wires come into the genie?  I know Im new to all this so thank you for your patience.  I had to look up what AGS stood for, lol. would that connection be at the genny or at the investor?  Ill try and look that up in the wiring diagram.

[Ivan K]

Keith, I have a 2000 Sig, so assume similarity. The connector in question is in this picture. If you disconnect it and the behavior is gone, you know the cause is either in the connector or interior wiring/switch/AGS. Also confirm that your interior generator switches are in center position, I had one that would sometimes get stuck in priming/lower position. The auto start is programmed from inverter control display panel and you would check it from its programming mode (up and down buttons at the same time until a beep, then scroll).

[Pduggs]

Weird things happen when your house batteries are bad. Check them. Replace them if need be. 

[Keith Russell]

I agree and replaced them Saturday with 2 new ones, thank you

Ivan thank you, I going out there now to check

[Pduggs]

Just now, Keith Russell said:

I agree and replaced them Saturday with 2 new ones, thank you

Do you only have two house batteries?

[Keith Russell]

Yes , when I purchased it a year ago that's what it had.  

We really only use coach for the races and where we run genny all the time so I just decided to replace with deep cycle batteries.  I almost went back to the 4 - 6volt but wishing I did.  This issue is new, we ran genny for a good while last week.  

[Tom Cherry]

1 hour ago, Keith Russell said:

Yes , when I purchased it a year ago that's what it had.  

We really only use coach for the races and where we run genny all the time so I just decided to replace with deep cycle batteries.  I almost went back to the 4 - 6volt but wishing I did.  This issue is new, we ran genny for a good while last week.  

Curiosity...  HOPEFULLY you did use the DEEP CYCLE RV MARINE batteries.  They are the Golf Car Series (GC1 I think).  If you used TWO 6 VOLT...then you put BOTH in SERIES...and then in Parallel. That will give you 225 Amp Hours....the AH are the SAME and NOT additive

If you bought the 12 Batteries....then you have them in Parallel. The 12 VDC Deep Cycle are SMALLER.  They only have 100 Amp Hours...thus you have only 200 Amp Hr...or 100 AMP Hours of capacity as you do not want to take them down past 12.0 VDC.  NOW....for all practical purposes, you can safely take them down to around 11.7/8 when under load.  When you pull the load or it decreases, they RECOVER and usually will be around 12.0 VDC, which per the charts, is around 50%.

Many folks have said this helps....or at least the 252, to date, that have downloaded it...

 

[Pduggs]

I’m no expert but if your House battery bank is incompatible with your inverter or not properly set up with your inverter, this might cause issues with your genset. 

[Keith Russell]

Ivan and Tom - I have found the multiwire connection and cleaned and described. when I disconnect it the noise (you said starter relay) and light goes away .  so now I will take off each of the 3 start/stop switches inside coach and see if there are anything weird going on.  Doing that now.  I will follow those wires back to the inverter and see if I see anything

[Keith Russell]

ok so the multiwire plug that Ivan showed in the photo is in question.  The only way to get the generator to run is to disconnect that multiwire plug.  Once I did that, everything worked great in the coach, AC ran etc.  I just lost control of turning on and off the generator from all 3 of the switches inside the coach.  This will work for now bc we wanted to have the generator working just in case the hurricane hits closer, thank you all for the help.  

I pulled apart each start/stop witch inside and didn't find anything there.  I was going to try and do a process of elimination with each switch but I get nothing when the plug by genny is connected.  I will go ahead and order a new multiwire plug and redo that connection first but if that doesn't work, Im lost.  Any other suggestions to narrow the issue?

[Ivan K]

You may already know it but all the interior generator controll switches are wired in parallel (3 of them) plus it branches off to the inverter. Any of the switches could be causing an issue and removing them one at a time or even all all of them would prove them. I assume that is what you have done. If so, there's still the inverter connection to eliminate, besides the connector itself. All that's left after that is the wiring bundle itself.

Edited October 9 by Ivan K

[Tom Cherry]

1 hour ago, Ivan K said:

You may already know it but all the interior generator controll switches are wired in parallel (3 of them) plus it branches off to the inverter. Any of the switches could be causing an issue and removing them one at a time or even all all of them would prove them. I assume that is what you have done. If so, there's still the inverter connection to eliminate, besides the connector itself. All that's left after that is the wiring bundle itself.

YES.

BUT, I would do it methodically.  Find the GROUND signal that is INCOMING on the switch.  NOT the OUTGOING.  THEN pull the GROUND on that switch. It MIGHT be a switch...  so disconnect all of them.  My original post said to disconnect or pull the harness off the AGS...as that may be the culprit...

Now that you understand it....step back and plot your steps.  AGS first...  Then Switch 1, 2, 3.  If that doesn't fix it and your plug back in the harness and the genny is STARTING...you have a NICKED WIRE....

[wamcneil]

33 minutes ago, Tom Cherry said:

YES.

BUT, I would do it methodically.  Find the GROUND signal that is INCOMING on the switch.  NOT the OUTGOING.  THEN pull the GROUND on that switch. It MIGHT be a switch...  so disconnect all of them.  My original post said to disconnect or pull the harness off the AGS...as that may be the culprit...

Now that you understand it....step back and plot your steps.  AGS first...  Then Switch 1, 2, 3.  If that doesn't fix it and your plug back in the harness and the genny is STARTING...you have a NICKED WIRE....

Do you have the original xantrex inverter?

The internal AGS in my original xantrex inverter went haywire and would stop the generator after I manually started it. Maybe it has another failure mode and can randomly start the generator?

Like Tom said, get into the access panel of the inverter and disconnect the AGS wiring to eliminate that as a possibility.

Edited October 9 by wamcneil

[Keith Russell]

Yes I did figure that out last night that the switches are in parallel, but I could only get the genny to run when the outside multiwire switch was unplugged.  When unplugged I have no power to the 3 inside switches and struggled to eliminate each switch.  Question - does the main wiring from the genny multicore switch go to the inside switch in the middle of the coach by inverter panel then split off to the one by the dash and the bedroom?  Other problem is that previous owner had put a new inverter in coach and the main panel inside is not working anymore due to different brand (photo below).  I am trying to look up info on this inverter to figure out how to disconnect the AGS.  

You can see in photo that the plug is buggered up but when I took it apart you can tell someone had already been in it and had it sealed pretty good.  One of the posts in the plug was rubbing on something at some point but they made it work.  I jumped that one wire to see if that was the problem but it still did the same thing.  I ordered a new plug kit and will install that anyway.  

For now should I start the generator with outside multiwire unplugged (that's the only way genny will run) then go inside and start from the back and pull one incoming ground wire off and then go try and plug the main multiwire outside back in and see if it stays running?  But if they are in parallel how would I single out each inside switch?   

[wamcneil]

19 minutes ago, Keith Russell said:

...  Question - does the main wiring from the genny multicore switch go to the inside switch in the middle of the coach by inverter panel then split off to the one by the dash and the bedroom?  Other problem is that previous owner had put a new inverter in coach and the main panel inside is not working anymore due to different brand (photo below).  I am trying to look up info on this inverter to figure out how to disconnect the AGS.  

You can see in photo that the plug is buggered up but when I took it apart you can tell someone had already been in it and had it sealed pretty good.  One of the posts in the plug was rubbing on something at some point but they made it work.  I jumped that one wire to see if that was the problem but it still did the same thing.  I ordered a new plug kit and will install that anyway.  

For now should I start the generator with outside multiwire unplugged (that's the only way genny will run) then go inside and start from the back and pull one incoming ground wire off and then go try and plug the main multiwire outside back in and see if it stays running?  But if they are in parallel how would I single out each inside switch?   

The generator wiring runs in the main harness down the passenger side. The AGS wiring goes from the inverter over to the passenger side where it ties in with the generator start/stop wiring overhead in the same compartment as the inverter. 

Picture attached showing my original AGS wiring. The old xantrex/trace wiring is probably different than your new inverter. I had to get into those splices and pull a new wire over to the inverter to hook up my new magnum AGS. Maybe the previous owner got into those splices, and something is out of sorts in there?  

I would start by disconnecting all of the switches like was previously suggested, and disconnect the AGS wiring and then see if you can still start the generator with the switch on the unit. If the generator still works, then start hooking the switches back up one-by-one from front to back and see when it fails

Edited October 9 by wamcneil

[Ivan K]

It was my understanding that Victron Multiplus does not provide for proper Onan starting procedure directly from the inverter itself (it does have a simple on/off relay) but an additional circuitry needs to be present externally. Wonder if you might have a standalone AGS unit (like a Magnum AGS module) that does that, if in fact you still have the function present after the upgrade/modification to Victron.