Dometic- Penguin Data Cable Connector - CORRECT TYPE and SOURCE

[Tom Cherry]

This post is to provide the CORRECT PN and TYPE for the Monaco OEM Connectors that attach the leads from the Control Modules to the Data Cables that run from the Thermostat to the Units and from each unit to the next.

This is for the original 5 Button Units (possibly...probably) the older 4 Buttons.  This is called, by Dometic as the CCC system or Data Cables.  FWIW.  These are NOT PHONE LINES and you can NOT use a piece of Phone cable to test.  This is a Data Communication Cable....a fancy name that says that the RJ11 (male connectors) are NOT terminated or attached the same as a PHONE line.  Again....there are FOUR (4) wires in a phone cable as well as in the Data Cable.  However, the color coding on the Data Cable on each end...is NOT THE SAME as a Phone Line.  There is a section on this in the Penguin manual as to WHICH colors go WHICH WAY.

BUT....the issues have been that the Inline (Female to Female) connectors will wear as in the contacts will deteriorate or have gunk on them.  TWO of the wires carry 12 VDC and that is what actually POWERS the Thermostat(s).  The other TWO lines are a Multiplex Signal from the Thermostat to each control unit.  That is what DRIVES or makes the system WORK.  There is NO HARD or Analog connection.

If you look at the schematic of your MH, you will see that each Air Conditioner has a 12 VDC line.  That is strictly for POWERING the Thermostat.  When you break or disconnect or the connection between one of the control modules is disrupted (unplugged), then the system loses what is called the HANDSHAKE.  Then you have to REBOOT the SYSTEM.  

This system was updated many years ago and NOW there is the Penguin II.  It uses a DIFFERENT Thermostat (10 Button) and different control modules.  It is call CCC2.  BUT, the same Data Communication Cables are used....so there is NO NEED to do anything but use the existing Monaco cables....assuming that the RJ11 (Male Connectors) are in good shape.  FOLKS have had to reterminate the male ends.

BOTTOM LINE....90% or more of the HVAC Posts are issues with a Faulty or LOST connection.  I can say that I have probably typed this and how to reset...as many other contributing members have done literally OVER 100 TIMES.  

OK...It is recommended that one carry SPARE connectors.  If Cleaning and Plugging and Unplugging doesn't work...then the easiest is to INSTALL a new Connector.

THEREIN LIES the issue.  These are NOT the same Connectors that Amazon or others sell.  They are a SPECIAL Data Communication Cable connector.

@AlanC2 has been the FIELD guy that had an issue and alerted me that the NEW connectors he ordered from Amazon did not work.  Then, I spent a LOT of time with a vendor.   And THEN....even after that, it took a LOT of experimenting. 

Here is a source for the connector. 

https://www.l-com.com/ethernet-modular-coupler-rj11-6x4-cross-wired?gad_source=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIldnQyK-GiAMVXMzCBB3DxCIGEAQYAiABEgJ4yvD_BwE

What you need, From L-Com is their part number TDG 1026-4R 

There is an EASY way to test any spare connector that you might have ordered.  Put the Connector on the "Bench".  Use you VOM on Continuity.  When it is laid out in front of you....the PINS, for this description are labeled as LEFT (Pin 1 is the closest to you and Pin 4 is the furthest from you).  Same goes for the RIGHT SIDE.  NOW...use your VOM Continuity.  Pin 1 on ONE side....must be Pin 1 on the OTHER.  If you have one that is CROSSED.....then Pin L1 (Left 1) will go to R4(Right 4). Then Pin L2 will go to R3....L3 will go to R2 and L4 will go to R1.  THIS IS THE WRONG CONNECTOR.  

Here is where it is TOTALLY CONFUSING.  The connectors will be LABELED on the website as STRAIGHT..  BUT, in reality....the pins are CROSSED.  I KNOW THAT IS PERFECTLY CLEAR.

The OEM Monaco connectors when you do a continuity test....the Left Pin closest to you and the RIGHT PIN closest to you will HAVE CONTNUITY...and then as you work your way out Pin 2's are CONNECTED.  Then Pin 3's and finally Pins 4.  BUT.....most of what you order will be crossed.  It is a COMMON MISTAKE and the vendors on AMAZON are selling PHONE CABLE CONNECTORS.  We have DATA CABLE CONNECTORS....

OK....the PROVERBIAL PICTURE and 10,000 Key Strokes. Click on the print if it does NOT load and look at it....

Alan actually did this on MANY of the connectors he ordered.  The OEM Monaco's were STRAIGHT across.  When he got the PHONE connectors they were CROSSED.  FINALLY we found the vendor and also the schematic.  I have "marked up" the L-Com PDF so it makes sense to ME.  Alan sent me a drawing that he made...and this is CORRECT.

Hope that helps.  

 

 

Dometic OEM Inline Connectors CCC & CCC2 Schematic.pdf

[Scotty Hutto]

Great stuff Tom!

Also from the voice (pun intended) of experience… if you deign to replace the ends on these data cables, these are known as RJ11 6p4c plugs.  (6 position; 4 wire).  RJ11 4p4c plugs will not work, nor will 6p6c (RJ-12) plugs.  The reason I mention this is big box building supply stores don’t typically carry RJ-11 6p4c plugs.  So if you run down to Home Depot and buy a data cable tool and some plugs, make sure you get the right ones. (Anyone need 4p4c plugs for your landlines? I’ve got about 96 extras…)

Different but related topic
...and not to confuse matters, but while we’re on the subject of data cables, the data cables on Magnum inverters use the same plugs, but they typically use shielded 2-pair cable instead of flat 4 conductor phone wire. (You will however see flat cable for temperature sensors on a Magnum inverter.)

[Tom Cherry]

35 minutes ago, Scotty Hutto said:

Great stuff Tom!

Also from the voice (pun intended) of experience… if you deign to replace the ends on these data cables, these are known as RJ11 6p4c plugs.  (6 position; 4 wire).  RJ11 4p4c plugs will not work, nor will 6p6c (RJ-12) plugs.  The reason I mention this is big box building supply stores don’t typically carry RJ-11 6p4c plugs.  So if you run down to Home Depot and buy a data cable tool and some plugs, make sure you get the right ones. (Anyone need 4p4c plugs for your landlines? I’ve got about 96 extras…)

Different but related topic
...and not to confuse matters, but while we’re on the subject of data cables, the data cables on Magnum inverters use the same plugs, but they typically use shielded 2-pair cable instead of flat 4 conductor phone wire. (You will however see flat cable for temperature sensors on a Magnum inverter.)

THANKS.  THIS has been a SAGA.  I talked to a TECH rep at L-Com and HE SAID...  Use the 6 PIN (has six CONTACTS) which is, I THINK, an RJ-12.  IT WILL WORK. MOST of the chatter on the "NET" say no... but this guy was the GURU.

Allen, who was having some medical procedure done and recovering was ALSO in touch with L-COM and apparently got a DIFFERENT tech or maybe he asked the question another way. He has been a real trooper and has been doing all the field testing.....and has FINALLY said...  OK, TOM....RUN WITH IT....but YOU gotta post and explain...  LOL.

He DID order the 6 Pins....but you only used 2 - 5.  THEN, he got the TDG1026-4R connector. It HAS spaces for 6, but on the middle 4 are used.

According to Alan ( @AlanC2 ) if works perfectly and is a MATE to what Monaco used.  SO, for whatever reason......we finally persevered and GOT THE RIGHT ONE.

@Frank McElroy  Forgot to put you on the LOOK OUT LIST.  Please add to the Parts List...

NOW>>>  Back to the REAL issues.....and this one, I HOPE, is put to bed.  THAT is why there is a NEW TOPIC....

[MyronTruex]

Not to be critical because a lot of work has gone into your explanations:

What you are discussing is a crossover versus straight through connector (adaptor). And I suspect many folks have been tripped up by this. It happens with data cables all the time.

And when building your own data cables for the units you have to look clearly at the way the manual shows you to hold the connectors. And you can use basically any wires that you find that are designed for the task. That is, electrons are color blind. It just makes things a bit hinkier when you are trying to get things right.

A cable tester is really a life saver too. Getting those pesky wires shoved into the connectors and then crimped is a lot harder for me these days. 

Great write up guys. 

My head hurts. 

 

 

[Tom Cherry]

1 hour ago, MyronTruex said:

Not to be critical because a lot of work has gone into your explanations:

What you are discussing is a crossover versus straight through connector (adaptor). And I suspect many folks have been tripped up by this. It happens with data cables all the time.

And when building your own data cables for the units you have to look clearly at the way the manual shows you to hold the connectors. And you can use basically any wires that you find that are designed for the task. That is, electrons are color blind. It just makes things a bit hinkier when you are trying to get things right.

A cable tester is really a life saver too. Getting those pesky wires shoved into the connectors and then crimped is a lot harder for me these days. 

Great write up guys. 

My head hurts. 

 

 

NO OFFENSE taken.  You are a pro and understand.  Our task was to locate a suitable connector…and finally did and it is a twin to the OEM one.  But, the depth and breadth of the explanation and pictures was to educate folks.  Many have purchased, as I have, spares and carry them.  Now they have a “plan” or method to test and ensure that they have the proper spare.

Not being an expert at testing and utilizing or for that matter, feeling the need to invest in a device that I might never use…just wanted, as you pointed out, folks to know HOW to simple test as well as understand and the nomenclature of the ads or the descriptions is so ambiguous…that Alan and I wanted a foolproof method snd verify our spares.

Maybe you can comment or give some input of changing or reterminating a bad RJ11…something, thankfully I have not had to “learn” but my luck will run out…

Thanks in advance…the way we learn….

[Tom Wallis]

Wow! I had no idea how blessed I was to get it right.

A couple of weeks ago I replaced the thermostat in my recently purchased HR Imperial with a MicroAir thermostat. In the process of enlarging the hole in the cabinet where it mounts I managed to nick the data cable and cut one of the wires. So I ordered a crimping tool and some RJ11 cable ends from Amazon. By the time I repaired the cable it was to short.

No problem, I go to the hardware store and pick up a phone line coupler and a short phone cable. It doesn't work. I go to the Monacoers site and discover that it's data cable and not telephone cable. My question is will the phone line connector work with data cable, I don't know. I look in my wire box and discover a short cable labeled "Data Cable". I have no idea where it came from or why it's there. When I plug it into my phone line connector everything works as advertised and it's still working.

Having no idea what I was doing here is the 6P4C RJ11 ends that I picked from dozens of choices on Amazon:

NECABLES 20Pack RJ11 Pass Through Connector 6P4C Telephone Modular Plug

After reading all of the above posts, it seems nothing short of a miracle that my thermostat is working.

[MyronTruex]

12 hours ago, Tom Wallis said:

Wow! I had no idea how blessed I was to get it right.

A couple of weeks ago I replaced the thermostat in my recently purchased HR Imperial with a MicroAir thermostat. In the process of enlarging the hole in the cabinet where it mounts I managed to nick the data cable and cut one of the wires. So I ordered a crimping tool and some RJ11 cable ends from Amazon. By the time I repaired the cable it was to short.

No problem, I go to the hardware store and pick up a phone line coupler and a short phone cable. It doesn't work. I go to the Monacoers site and discover that it's data cable and not telephone cable. My question is will the phone line connector work with data cable, I don't know. I look in my wire box and discover a short cable labeled "Data Cable". I have no idea where it came from or why it's there. When I plug it into my phone line connector everything works as advertised and it's still working.

Having no idea what I was doing here is the 6P4C RJ11 ends that I picked from dozens of choices on Amazon:

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CLDPFXX6?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title&th=1

After reading all of the above posts, it seems nothing short of a miracle that my thermostat is working.

The coupler will likely work.

Changing ends or installing connectors on cables can be really frustrating. Two to use, three to lose. That is, mess up at least two of them before getting it right. Flipping one the wrong direction, not getting the wires inserted fully.

The connectors with the pass through holes might work but I would recommend a strong light and magnifying light to make sure there are no stray wires shorting at the ends. Those wires are very close to each other. 

Without a tester or a sharp ohmeter probe, it is hard to test a data cable end to end. You can buy a cheap phone jack and plug the cable into that so there are screws or wires you can actually touch your meter to. (poor mans breakout box). 

I was able to find a pre-built cable and have it for testing now. I know it is impossible to run new cables in places but it is useful for diagnosis.

[Tom Wallis]

1 hour ago, MyronTruex said:

Changing ends or installing connectors on cables can be really frustrating. Two to use, three to lose. That is, mess up at least two of them before getting it right. Flipping one the wrong direction, not getting the wires inserted fully.

It did take me two tries to get the end on right. That's partly why the line ended up too short.

[MyronTruex]

I cut it off twice and it was still too short!

[MyronTruex]

This AC troubleshooting issue would make a great subject for conversation at the gathering. Samples of connectors, cables, and schematics could help a lot. 

[pulsarjab]

I retired from a 35 year career working with computers. We called that cable a modem cable.

 

 

[Tom Cherry]

20 minutes ago, MyronTruex said:

This AC troubleshooting issue would make a great subject for conversation at the gathering. Samples of connectors, cables, and schematics could help a lot. 

Already DID and Done.  There will be a presentation on HVAC and all of the MYSTERIES….   I’ve kidded Dr. McElroy and want him to do a “THIS BE HOW MPX WORKS”….complete with a “scope” or such.  I think that MPX bugs people more….I barely understand it….and my background is similar to yours….with 2 years of College EE before the math made me find another Engineering curriculum..

If you seen a brief YouTube video, PM me. That also would address the infamous Data Buss for the various engine and chassis devices….
 

Will be a Q&A as well as Member input….we always have some folks that are very knowledgeable and contribute…..er…and every once in a while….correct or “splain” something in ENGLISH….

Thanks for the comment. It reinforces the need.  We’re looking at “what issue are the top ten posts?” And trying to address….

[jacwjames]

I bought a tool from Lowes that will attach connectors onto cables.  The problem is they don't sell the standard connectors, I had to buy on line.  Took 3 different orders to get the correct one for my Progressive HWC50 display.  They were the 4 wire connector but dimensions were wrong, would not fit into the slot.  I also had to make up a communication cable for the Victron VMB712 display, the cable that came with it was too short so had to make one.  Then had to make a short cable for the Duotherm that I installed in my wife's van.  Just have to confirm the wiring sequence, the AC was reversed, there was a picture in the installation manual showing this.

Once you get the hang of it it works pretty slick. 

[Frank McElroy]

On 8/27/2024 at 9:54 AM, Tom Cherry said:

This post is to provide the CORRECT PN and TYPE for the Monaco OEM Connectors that attach the leads from the Control Modules to the Data Cables that run from the Thermostat to the Units and from each unit to the next.

This is for the original 5 Button Units (possibly...probably) the older 4 Buttons.  This is called, by Dometic as the CCC system or Data Cables.  FWIW.  These are NOT PHONE LINES and you can NOT use a piece of Phone cable to test.  This is a Data Communication Cable....a fancy name that says that the RJ11 (male connectors) are NOT terminated or attached the same as a PHONE line.  Again....there are FOUR (4) wires in a phone cable as well as in the Data Cable.  However, the color coding on the Data Cable on each end...is NOT THE SAME as a Phone Line.  There is a section on this in the Penguin manual as to WHICH colors go WHICH WAY.

BUT....the issues have been that the Inline (Female to Female) connectors will wear as in the contacts will deteriorate or have gunk on them.  TWO of the wires carry 12 VDC and that is what actually POWERS the Thermostat(s).  The other TWO lines are a Multiplex Signal from the Thermostat to each control unit.  That is what DRIVES or makes the system WORK.  There is NO HARD or Analog connection.

If you look at the schematic of your MH, you will see that each Air Conditioner has a 12 VDC line.  That is strictly for POWERING the Thermostat.  When you break or disconnect or the connection between one of the control modules is disrupted (unplugged), then the system loses what is called the HANDSHAKE.  Then you have to REBOOT the SYSTEM.  

This system was updated many years ago and NOW there is the Penguin II.  It uses a DIFFERENT Thermostat (10 Button) and different control modules.  It is call CCC2.  BUT, the same Data Communication Cables are used....so there is NO NEED to do anything but use the existing Monaco cables....assuming that the RJ11 (Male Connectors) are in good shape.  FOLKS have had to reterminate the male ends.

BOTTOM LINE....90% or more of the HVAC Posts are issues with a Faulty or LOST connection.  I can say that I have probably typed this and how to reset...as many other contributing members have done literally OVER 100 TIMES.  

OK...It is recommended that one carry SPARE connectors.  If Cleaning and Plugging and Unplugging doesn't work...then the easiest is to INSTALL a new Connector.

THEREIN LIES the issue.  These are NOT the same Connectors that Amazon or others sell.  They are a SPECIAL Data Communication Cable connector.

@AlanC2 has been the FIELD guy that had an issue and alerted me that the NEW connectors he ordered from Amazon did not work.  Then, I spent a LOT of time with a vendor.   And THEN....even after that, it took a LOT of experimenting. 

Here is a source for the connector. 

https://www.l-com.com/ethernet-modular-coupler-rj11-6x4-cross-wired?gad_source=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIldnQyK-GiAMVXMzCBB3DxCIGEAQYAiABEgJ4yvD_BwE

What you need, From L-Com is their part number TDG 1026-4R 

There is an EASY way to test any spare connector that you might have ordered.  Put the Connector on the "Bench".  Use you VOM on Continuity.  When it is laid out in front of you....the PINS, for this description are labeled as LEFT (Pin 1 is the closest to you and Pin 4 is the furthest from you).  Same goes for the RIGHT SIDE.  NOW...use your VOM Continuity.  Pin 1 on ONE side....must be Pin 1 on the OTHER.  If you have one that is CROSSED.....then Pin L1 (Left 1) will go to R4(Right 4). Then Pin L2 will go to R3....L3 will go to R2 and L4 will go to R1.  THIS IS THE WRONG CONNECTOR.  

Here is where it is TOTALLY CONFUSING.  The connectors will be LABELED on the website as STRAIGHT..  BUT, in reality....the pins are CROSSED.  I KNOW THAT IS PERFECTLY CLEAR.

The OEM Monaco connectors when you do a continuity test....the Left Pin closest to you and the RIGHT PIN closest to you will HAVE CONTNUITY...and then as you work your way out Pin 2's are CONNECTED.  Then Pin 3's and finally Pins 4.  BUT.....most of what you order will be crossed.  It is a COMMON MISTAKE and the vendors on AMAZON are selling PHONE CABLE CONNECTORS.  We have DATA CABLE CONNECTORS....

OK....the PROVERBIAL PICTURE and 10,000 Key Strokes. Click on the print if it does NOT load and look at it....

Alan actually did this on MANY of the connectors he ordered.  The OEM Monaco's were STRAIGHT across.  When he got the PHONE connectors they were CROSSED.  FINALLY we found the vendor and also the schematic.  I have "marked up" the L-Com PDF so it makes sense to ME.  Alan sent me a drawing that he made...and this is CORRECT.

Hope that helps.  

 

 

Dometic OEM Inline Connectors CCC & CCC2 Schematic.pdf 368.02 kB · 17 downloads

Can you send me a word doc or pdf file so I can add this writeup to our file Downloads?