Random topic...but also states the DANGERS of dealing with large and high pressure tires.

[Tom Cherry]

I worked at a School Bus garage when I was 17 or some 62 years ago. We had a mechanic that could barely work but was kept on the payroll after a  Rim (probably the old SPLIT STYLE) and Tire exploded and broke his back and injured another person. THAT STUCK WITH ME...and I worked at a large tire shop changing OTR tires...actually HELPING....and knew the dangers.

This article was on NEWSMAX.  It hit me hard.... 

https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/delta-airlines-killed-injured/2024/08/27/id/1178053/

NOW...in adherance to our NO POLITICAL POSTS...  If you click on the link....and see "ads" or comments... The ARTICLE does NOT contain or represent or condemn or condone any political entity....That is why I copied and posted it.  So, the policy is maintained...  but you can read it there....with that disclaimer....

Reports: 2 Killed, 1 Hurt at Delta Airlines Facility

Two workers were killed and one injured when a tire exploded as it was being removed from a plane at the Delta Air Lines operations facility at Hartsfield-Jackson Atlanta International Airport on Tuesday, according to media reports.

Delta did not immediately respond to a request for confirmation.

A Delta employee and a contractor were killed when a tire on a plane exploded while it was being removed, WSB-TV in Atlanta reported, citing sources. Another Delta employee suffered injuries in the incident.

The aircraft arrived from Atlanta from Las Vegas on Sunday, the station reported, citing flight information.

ACCORDING TO GOOGLE..... as to the SIZE and PRESSURE...this is what I found....

The optimal tire pressure for the all the wheels on the aircraft is 218 PSI (pounds per square inch). To put into perspective, the tires on our cars are usually inflated in the range of 30 PSI. How big are the tires on the Boeing 777-200LR? The main wheel: 52 inches x 21 inches; The nose wheel: 43 inches x 17.5 inches

[Georgia Mike]

My son works for Delta in Tech Opps and they are two piece rims on those wheels and apparently they unbolted it under high pressure. So sad for the families involved. My son wasn’t there but found out about it right after it happened. 

[96 EVO]

Always wondered why they don't use electric motors to get those wheels up to speed before they touch concrete 🤔.

Would think it would give them a little longer life.

[Tom Cherry]

38 minutes ago, 96 EVO said:

Always wondered why they don't use electric motors to get those wheels up to speed before they touch concrete 🤔.

Would think it would give them a little longer life.

We need an AERONAUTICAL Engineer.  BUT, if you had a MOTOR turning it to get it up to speed and the POWER FAILED....then there would be a DRAG... OPPS....you BUFF off the tires.  So, it sounds like FREE WHEELING is the system... BUT, just a guess.  

@David Pratt and @FlynPirate are TWO Corporate Jet rated pilots.  Perhaps they can elaborate....  Just my 2 cents...  

Sounds like the ground crew WAS NOT TRAINED.  I admit to doing things that later I regretted...and should have known better....but NOT UNBOLTING A TWO PIECE RIM that had a 218 PSI tire...  .  I did NOT KNOW THAT.  That explains a LOT.  

Thanks @Georgia Mike

NOW....FWIW...  The Tyron Band are (or WERE) used on Airplane tires.  SAME Technology and the USA Franchise owner (or was in 2018...lost touch with him) Chuck Thatcher did a LOT of tech support...as well as the liaison between the TYRON Engineers (presumably in England) and the Aircraft and Power Frame techs that INSTALLED the tires.  SAME principle that we have on our MH.

Google says that MOST Aircraft tires are TUBELESS.....and that is ALL I know....

[FlynPirate]

1 hour ago, 96 EVO said:

Always wondered why they don't use electric motors to get those wheels up to speed before they touch concrete 🤔.

Would think it would give them a little longer life.

Cost, weight, certification, but most importantly, symmetry. We seldom land with both tires perfectly aligned with the direction of travel (Runway heading) because, primarily of crosswinds. "Most" landings have a small amount of "crab angle" to correct for wind. If both tires were spinning at some "hypothetical" spin-up speed, as soon as you touched down the motor spinning up the tires could potentially drive you off the runway. (Messing up a good crosswind landing!) Also what speed would they need to be spinning? A strong headwind on final approach reduces "ground speed" so the tires could potentially be spinning faster than needed thereby increasing landing distance, which just ain't good!! (I can see the news video now, we ran off the runway, crossed the ditch and stopped, BUT both wheels are spinning like crazy as we dangle over the ditch! lol.) In theory, could technology correct for all this?... yes, but at what cost and legal certification? I'll be retired by then. Lol! 

[cbr046]

Here's a link to the Atlanta station WSB-TV report, but the report doesn't add much to the cause . . . just that it was in the tire shop and there was flying metal.

Sometimes the guys on the floor (any floor, not just aviation) have a few shortcuts outside of the maintenance manuals.  Hopefully that wasn't the case. 

Very sad indeed.

- bob

[FlynPirate]

Sad to hear this story ... those tires are under a lot of pressure. 

[Ivan K]

Wow, 218 psi. My son's bush plane sits on 8 psi in tires that look like a fat tube, no bead to break and leak out. Sounds safe...

[Tom Cherry]

1 hour ago, FlynPirate said:

Cost, weight, certification, but most importantly, symmetry. We seldom land with both tires perfectly aligned with the direction of travel (Runway heading) because, primarily of crosswinds. "Most" landings have a small amount of "crab angle" to correct for wind. If both tires were spinning at some "hypothetical" spin-up speed, as soon as you touched down the motor spinning up the tires could potentially drive you off the runway. (Messing up a good crosswind landing!) Also what speed would they need to be spinning? A strong headwind on final approach reduces "ground speed" so the tires could potentially be spinning faster than needed thereby increasing landing distance, which just ain't good!! (I can see the news video now, we ran off the runway, crossed the ditch and stopped, BUT both wheels are spinning like crazy as we dangle over the ditch! lol.) In theory, could technology correct for all this?... yes, but at what cost and legal certification? I'll be retired by then. Lol! 

YA DON’T SAY???  Crabbing.  HMM….when you are in a 16 passenger Lake Winnipesaukee Airlines plane and the copilot didn’t show, but there was a “charter” arranged by a national company….and there was 31 of us….they FLEW anyhow,  I grabbed the right front (copilot) seat.  We were flying great out of a small NH airfield and headed to Logan.  i was listening to the pilots chatter….but then the control tower said.  LAXX55XX or something like that…. Be advised crosswinds gusting to 45 or so knots on R35L (the runway number) and I looked down at his clipboard and  it was one of Logan’s Strip of Land in the Harbor.  I thought….gonna get great few shots when we touch down and land.  Then the Pilot killed the speaker and went to headsets and I started to put on one and he said NO.  OK….touchy guy.

Then we headed down.  He was at the far end of the strip so far out in the bay, the tower was a spot.  He touched down….and had then yanked the stick turned or rotated far right.  OMG,  he’s suicidal.  We’re going into the drink.  WHY ME, LORD?  As we touched down the plane looked and felt like we were 45 deg to the runway.  He was dancing on the pedals and had one hand on the stick (wheel) and was doing all sorts of things to levers and switches and such….about halfway down the runway….the plane started to straighten up and he was STILL pulling and pushing.  This was in 1975….

As we were taxiing later, he explained about Cross Winds and Crabbing.  I still remember that flight…..

[FlynPirate]

23 minutes ago, Tom Cherry said:

YA DON’T SAY???  Crabbing.  HMM….when you are in a 16 passenger Lake Winnipesaukee Airlines plane and the copilot didn’t show, but there was a “charter” arranged by a national company….and there was 31 of us….they FLEW anyhow,  I grabbed the right front (copilot) seat.  We were flying great out of a small NH airfield and headed to Logan.  i was listening to the pilots chatter….but then the control tower said.  LAXX55XX or something like that…. Be advised crosswinds gusting to 45 or so knots on R35L (the runway number) and I looked down at his clipboard and  it was one of Logan’s Strip of Land in the Harbor.  I thought….gonna get great few shots when we touch down and land.  Then the Pilot killed the speaker and went to headsets and I started to put on one and he said NO.  OK….touchy guy.

Then we headed down.  He was at the far end of the strip so far out in the bay, the tower was a spot.  He touched down….and had then yanked the stick turned or rotated far right.  OMG,  he’s suicidal.  We’re going into the drink.  WHY ME, LORD?  As we touched down the plane looked and felt like we were 45 deg to the runway.  He was dancing on the pedals and had one hand on the stick (wheel) and was doing all sorts of things to levers and switches and such….about halfway down the runway….the plane started to straighten up and he was STILL pulling and pushing.  This was in 1975….

As we were taxiing later, he explained about Cross Winds and Crabbing.  I still remember that flight…..

A dirty shorts flight! Glad you're still here Tom. I've never seen a pilot "yawning" yet during a strong crosswind landing ... Ha!

[Tom Cherry]

42 minutes ago, FlynPirate said:

A dirty shorts flight! Glad you're still here Tom. I've never seen a pilot "yawning" yet during a strong crosswind landing ... Ha!

How shall we say this….he was NOT that experienced…but got us down….and after the color returned to his face, seemed calm.  Maybe he lit a cigarette, later on.  It DID make an impression.  That was a long time ago and I have 1,500,000 seat miles…you do the math for a 200 passenger airliner.

The MOST FRIGHTENING.  We were riding a Hawaiian Airlines commuter from   Oahu to Kauai.  Large expensive tour group.  We had no other non tour passengers.  Walked into the plane….no security.  We had an elderly, recent widow…with dementia.  She got lost going to her room snd we lost her on a tour and the bus left without her, but the local PD had a BOLO.   

She had been randomly assigned a window emergency row.  I was on the other inside one…across the aisle.  DW had the window,  Estelle was her name.  She ordered two rum and cokes….the airborn…two more.  We hit a storm that shook the plane and lightning….  And I have ridden in some bad ones,  I looked over.  She had her life vest out on her lap…she was reading the emergency card and then using her hands to sort of “acquaint” herself with the mechanism.  We had to turn back and land and wait….FREE BOOZE.  I was on good terms with the guide and she was totally stressed Estelle….she had even called her daughters and no one would come and get her…. I pointed out the issue of her seat….and she got the captain to give her a cockpit tour….and then escorted her back to her new seat.  She never realized that it was NOT the emergency row….

All in a career when a BAL Captain forgot there was no tailhook and flew into the Manchester UK runway….the old stodgy steward said….. Welcome to Manchester….How safely we landed will be determined after the ground crew inspects the undercarriage.  You could have heard a pin drop,  

FUN….do I miss it….?.? MH’ing more fun….especially with a WATTS link…LOL

[klcdenver]

I am an A&P Mechanic and retired Airline Pilot. They tried in the past to use spin up motors for tires but never successfully. There has been many people hurt and killed servicing aircraft tires. First you remove the valve stem core to remove the pressure. The wheels are 2 part mated with bolts. So if you don’t remove air first and start removing bolts then an accident will happen. They are also very critical in the re-assembly after putting on a new tire. The bolts have to be torqued in a certain order. I lost a very good friend because he forgot to deflate a Sea Fury tire prior to starting to remove the wheel bolts.

[96 EVO]

3 minutes ago, klcdenver said:

I am an A&P Mechanic and retired Airline Pilot. They tried in the past to use spin up motors for tires but never successfully. There has been many people hurt and killed servicing aircraft tires. First you remove the valve stem core to remove the pressure. The wheels are 2 part mated with bolts. So if you don’t remove air first and start removing bolts then an accident will happen. They are also very critical in the re-assembly after putting on a new tire. The bolts have to be torqued in a certain order. I lost a very good friend because he forgot to deflate a Sea Fury tire prior to starting to remove the wheel bolts.

Kinda sounds like that may have been what happened!

Somehow they thought the tire was already deflated.

[det944]

Most aircraft AMM procedures contain similar guidance as below. Standard practice in most cases is to deflate the tire prior to removal and verify the tire has been deflated prior to work being preformed on the wheel /tire assy.

 

 

[Tom Cherry]

11 hours ago, det944 said:

Most aircraft AMM procedures contain similar guidance as below. Standard practice in most cases is to deflate the tire prior to removal and verify the tire has been deflated prior to work being preformed on the wheel /tire assy.

 

 

THANKS..   

This is sort of like all the warning posted to turn off power before working on a panel or to remove a round from the chamber and check for an EMPTY Chamber before starting to field strip a Glock...

Unfortunately...  And as an Ex Safety Director, I know this first hand, that when folks get into a hurry or have done the task dozens, if not more times, somehow they get distracted and forget to do the FIRST STOP (Power off or Chamber empty of Deflate).  My worst fear was to have to investigate an accident that involved an amputation or loss of an eye or WORSE.  And no matter how many safety meeting are held or how many repeats or MUST ATTEND safety training session are held....

IT DOES HAPPEN....and those involved....the ones injured as well as the ones responsible for training and safety are very distraught today...and will be so for a long time.

Condolences to the families of the deceased or injured and also support for those involved in the investigation and also the remedial training and revisions.

Fortunately, I never had any of the "BIG THREE".  One NEAR MISS....which could have been an amputation or a broken arm.... had a silver lining.  I used that incident as an example of what could have been worse and unilaterally shut down production, on a rotating basis, for a new approach to worker safety....and when I left, that plant, in Mexico where safety is NOT usually the highest priority, had over 5 Million Man Hours without a lost time accident...

Hopefully Delta will respond likewise....

[Jetjockey]

Remember as a kid a tractor tire in a tire shop exploded. It blew both garage doors off the building,one killed and blow out into the drive and blew a gas pump off its foundation. Catastrophic release of pressure even a few pounds release a lot of energy.

[dennis.mcdonaugh]

20 hours ago, 96 EVO said:

Always wondered why they don't use electric motors to get those wheels up to speed before they touch concrete 🤔.

Would think it would give them a little longer life.

I think some large military aircraft do that. 

[Jetjockey]

I am not aware of any aircraft that spins up tires on landing other than the space shuttles. If true.  
addimg spin up systems would add another level of complexity weight maintainance etc plus the rotation speed would be quite high.  It would take quite a drive system to spin those  massive dual landing gear wheels to acceptable speed . Lots of electrical or hydraulic energy. Probably overwhelming existing hydraulic and electrical on the aircraft..  making tires look rather cheap.  Having a system failure on either side would upon touchdown would make an engine loss on takeoff look like a non event. The differential enertial from side to side would be very high possibly causing loss of directional control and putting great stress on the landing gear. I would stay with slow smooth coordinated touchdowns and let the tires smoke a little.  Crabbing to maintain runway alignment is something I don’t care for and puts stress on gear and airframe. Much rather lower upwind wing,use rudder to keep runway heading and touchdown on upwind gear pinning it to runway with aileron. Understanding that some situations and training practices don’t lend themselves to this..Having succesfully smoked tires  professionally and personally for 48 years still enjoying it.

Edited September 1 by Jetjockey

[klcdenver]

Actuallly the Citation Bravo has a StC for a gravel kit that uses bleed air to spin up the front tire. 

[Jetjockey]

Flew the bravo some years ago never knew that.

[klcdenver]

Something else strange was when utilizing the gravel kit it required 2 pilots. One had to monitor a idiot light to make sure the wheel was spinning.

[Steve P]

I had a 2 piece wheel separate while inflating the tire on a small garden cart recently (problem seems to have been rusted fasteners).  The noise was cannon-like, and the wheel halves bounced around the corner of the garage like ricocheting bullets.  At some point my hand got in the way and the fingernail on my middle finger got smashed... still healing 3 months later.  My guardian angels may not have fared so well...  All this with the pressure regulator set to 28 lbs (under the recommended pressure) .  I'm now using screw-on extension hoses for all airing up, and standing well clear, regardless of pressure or tire size.

As the saying goes, "Good judgment comes from experience, unfortunately experience often comes from bad judgment".

[Jetjockey]

I am guessing the Bravo spin up kit on nose wheel was to lessen likely hood of gravel ingestion fin engines?

[klcdenver]

Yes that is correct. I am now flying a Pilatus PC24 that is certified for dirt, gravel, grass and unimproved strips. It has a nose wheel fender that looks about like a catchers mitt.