Norcold 1200LRIM s/n 8206262 worked when last parked in 2020; now shows no signs of life

[ak2handr]

2006 Monaco 36PDQ, 49k miles, seems to be inert

  Hiya, all.

    We last drove & used "Bertha" in 2020.  She then sat next to our home in NC until this past month, when I began un-mothballing her to head to an amateur radio hamfest  nearby.  My story about part of this is in another thread just posted about the HWH that's *almost* back to life.

   This fridge shows no signs of life. All new batteries. 120 vac to both receptacles inside control compartment (fridge & icemaker). She was properly Winterized in 2019.  Propane tank is full,  valves are open. 

  There's 117vac to the terminal at the lower left corner of the control PCB. The AC Slo-Blo fuse and the 5A 12VDC fuses on the board are all good.  With both shore power (120 VAC, 20A circuit) and the new house batteries, the eyebrow display/control board mounted on the front of the fridge is completely dead.  A call to a Good Sam service concierge provided some simple troubleshooting tips that yielded no viable solutions.

 I'm loathe to just start throwing parts at this thing. When I was fixing two-way radios for a living, I always preferred to do an intelligent job of troubleshooting than just flooding a Device Under Test with $$ & parts until it finally gave up its reticence and began functioning.  Amazon has a whole raft of parts that allude to working with this serial number range, but several previous buyers report varying degrees of success.

   I feel like I've been messing with this thing so long that I'm missing some simple solution.  Anyone here recognize my problem?

  Many thanks.

de KL7HNY        Barney

diddly dahdidah

[RNMCBR]

You may have checked this but make sure you have 12v at the input terminals on the control board. 

[ak2handr]

15 minutes ago, RNMCBR said:

You may have checked this but make sure you have 12v at the input terminals on the control board. 

I wasn't sure which leads deliver 12 vdc to the board, but both sides of the 5A plastic tab fuse show 12V to ground.

[RNMCBR]

See attached picture. The 12v+ is the red wire on the right. The other is ground. Check across these with a meter to prove 12vdc to the board.

[tmw188]

I feel you are experiencing the natural progression of the final step of separation that everyone eventually gets to.

[Dr4Film]

Do you have the manual which has an extensive troubleshooting section?

[ak2handr]

Doc,

I do not.  I have the huge looseleaf binder "Owner's Manual" that describes sections of the coach and a very simplified version of the "how it works," but nothing anywhere as detailed as the manual that some kind soul posted here for the Dometic/Atwood water heater that I've got.  Most of my online queries for such documents point towards eBay sites wherein vendors sell downloads for $20 and up. But hope springs eternal.

[ak2handr]

Doc,

I do not.  I have the huge looseleaf binder "Owner's Manual" that describes sections of the coach and a very simplified version of the "how it works," but nothing anywhere as detailed as the manual that some kind soul posted here for the Dometic/Atwood water heater that I've got.  Most of my online queries for such documents point towards eBay sites wherein vendors sell downloads for $20 and up. But hope springs eternal.

[Dr4Film]

This manual may help you with troubleshooting your problem.

Norcold Service Manual.pdf

[ak2handr]

RNMCBR,

It seems I have a different control board from yours. 

Rank amateur at this that I am, I took a break and looked at the fuse layout description in the big book.  As it happens, there was a blown (open) 5A fuse on the big panel under the driver's window. I replaced it, but nothing appeared to happen.  I believe I never looked for one in the first place because it seemed I had 12vdc showing up on the overtemp board up high above the control board (the red LED was lit.)

I did check a set of 12VDC leads that connect to, among other things, the overtemp sensor that proudly displays its sole red LED, but I fear that's a bad thing.  The left side has 12+  and GND terminals; they they show +13.5vdc across them.  The +12V out has nothing on it.  I tried a semi-well-known reset of it (apparently a relay inside?) and either mine has something else wrong, or the cheesy magnetic pickup wand from Hazard Fraught isn't strong enough to pull it in. Amazon has promised a set of 8 neodymium coin magnets to be delivered today, so I will check with that, too.

I also put my DC ammeter inline between the disconnected 12V in & out leads on that board; zero current flow.

Since it seems my "gozintas" are correct but my "gozoutas" are not, I'm suspecting (in my admittedly amateurish way) that I need a new control board? BTW, in case it helps diagnose anything, even after replacing the 5A "REFER" fuse, the fridge's interior lamp remains off (and 0V across its terminals) and the eyebrow control board on the front of the fridge remains dark.  I unplugged the two multi-pin connectors that feed the board, treated them with Caig D100L, and replugged them without noticeable effect.

BTW, I've modified my control board cover by Dremeling it in two pieces, and trimmed out the little plastic bridges that marshall the wires going through it. Now I can remove the cover in about one minute.  When all is said & done and it's working again, I'll cover the gap between the two halves with electrician's tape to keep water out. 

So, all for now; the only thing different from before I started this saga is that the 5A fuse in the forward left bay is now good.

 

20240830_173038.heic 20240830_173058.heic 20240830_185327.heic 20240830_185357.heic

5 minutes ago, Dr4Film said:

This manual may help you with troubleshooting your problem.

Norcold Service Manual.pdf 10.35 MB · 0 downloads

Doc,

Many thanks.  Now I'll see how much trouble I can get into after I RTFM.

You folks are collectively a tremendous resource for we neophytes. I am able to believe I have a chance at getting Bertha back to 100%.

[RNMCBR]

It sounds like you may have the Norcold or some other safety device and it may not be passing 12v to the control board. If so, you can disconnect it and reconnect the 12v wires directly to the board to verify board operation. Then, if you cannot reset the safety device you could get an ARP safety device ( or a new one if that is what you already have). 

[Dr4Film]

If I remember correctly,  if the infamous NotSoCold Black Box has a Red LED on it that is lit up, it will not allow power to the control board and the fridge will not work.

You will need a heavy duty super strong magnet to reset that box

 If it trips again then you have a more serious problem.

[ak2handr]

13 minutes ago, Dr4Film said:

If I remember correctly,  if the infamous NotSoCold Black Box has a Red LED on it that is lit up, it will not allow power to the control board and the fridge will not work.

You will need a heavy duty super strong magnet to reset that box

 If it trips again then you have a more serious problem.

Doc,

Excellent info -- thanks.  I'll see what Summer Santa brings me from Amazon for the supercalifragilistic magnet and try that.  I did try jumpering around the box with my DC ammeter, but no current flowed.  And I have no idea what the teensy pair of leads that go to the Molex connector do.

I shall report back.  Right now, I'm going out to Bertha to see if having the doors open for circulation and mold/mildew abeyance is what's been the fly in my ointment. If anything changes. I shall report it immeedjitly, as my Mom used to say.

-- Barney --

[ak2handr]

2 hours ago, ak2handr said:

  Right now, I'm going out to Bertha to see if having the doors open for circulation and mold/mildew abeyance is what's been the fly in my ointment. If anything changes. I shall report it immeedjitly, as my Mom used to say.

-- Barney --

But alas, the door switches had nothing to do with it. Oh, well.

-- Barney --

[Hancoman]

If the light on the box blinks once a second it can be reset with a magnet.  If it blinks faster than once a second then it’s toast. That’s when I replaced with a residential fridge.  Good Luck

[RNMCBR]

It sounds to me you have shown no 12vdc going to your control board from the overtemp sensor.
Page 40 of the Norcold Service Manual Richard sent you shows where the 12vdc connections are on your control board. If you provide proven 12vdc to these pins you will see whether the front control panel lights up. If it does, you can try starting the refrigerator. If it doesn’t start, check for an error code and run the diagnostic trees in the service manual. 

I would take the leads feeding the overtemp sensor (the ones you measured 13.5vdc on) and plug them directly into the control board. If the front panel on your refrigerator lights up, you have a tripped or bad overtemp sensor. 

I would perform this check first. 

[pulsarjab]

I know this is not helpful in solving your immediate problem but I feel compelled to offer my experience one more time. My 2000 Diplomat had a Norcold 1200. Like many others, over the years I had replaced nearly everything that had a wire attached to keep it running. I have used many of the test procedures others have mentioned to keep it going. After seeing all of the RV's burned up in a salvage yard I could not sleep knowing it could happen anytime. I found a nice Frigidaire that would fit in the space, ($600) and with the help of two friends, we installed it in one day. It will run 24 hours on batteries, holds more food, runs very cold, and makes more ice than we can use, and I sleep at night. Bonus is replacements are readily available at Home Depot, it weights much less than the Norcold and can be easily removed and replaced. We had eight people at Oshkosh, camping for a week, with no hookups, and never had a problem, and that is with four grand kids standing in front of the frig with the door open, surveying drinks and snacks.

[ak2handr]

Sounds like a great solution.  It never occurred to me that there are other fridges that can run on batteries (via an onboard inverter, or is it a native 12-volt unit?)

Also, I'm jealous: I've always wanted to drive to Oshkosh for the big fly-in, and to Dayton for the Hamvention.

Were you able to get the Norcold out through the regular "people door?"  It has always seemed so large that I figured it was  placed in the chassis before the end caps were installed, and then the rest of the coach built around it.

If you get a moment, I'd be grateful to know the model of your Frigidaire. That would let me begin my own quest for an alternative cooling device.

Thank you!

-- Barney in NC --

Edited September 1 by ak2handr

[tmw188]

These old Norcolds will consume your whole experience while camping and traveling. Everyone budget and abilities are different. Replacing it will turn your experience around 180 deg. 

[ak2handr]

On 8/30/2024 at 8:15 PM, RNMCBR said:

It sounds like you may have the Norcold or some other safety device and it may not be passing 12v to the control board. If so, you can disconnect it and reconnect the 12v wires directly to the board to verify board operation. Then, if you cannot reset the safety device you could get an ARP safety device ( or a new one if that is what you already have). 

   I'd not heard of the ARP device until just now. A quick check of Amazon shows an ARP Safety Device for around $100, on the same page as an assortment of stock-NotSoCold-looking ones for anywhere from $35 to around $55.  Is the ARP generally accepted as vastly (or even discernibly) superior to the cheaper square one?

   One of the careers from which I'm retired is as a paramedic-firefighter, followed by a stint as an Alaska State Trooper Investigator.  I've long since learned the risks of going with the cheapest *anything* where life safety is in the balance. So if the ARP is clearly superior (as in "safer") I'll happily spring for the $100.

   Also, for that matter, is there a viable magnet reset for the ARP if it trips? 

   Which begs the question, whose answer I cannot find in the service manual:  Should the original style reset itself once the alarm-causing fault clears?

Inquiring minds wanna know.

-- Barney --

Edited September 1 by ak2handr

[RNMCBR]

The ARP device is more sophisticated than the Norcold overtemp device. You can read about it at: arprv.com. As with many 3rd party ad ons, there are optional enhancements at higher prices.

If after you get your refrigerator running you discover it is having overtemp issues, I would worry about the health and safety of the cooling unit. You could consider replacing it or converting to either the helium, 12v or 120vac units sold at: jc-refrigeration.com. You can read about them there. Or, as many have suggested you could retrofit to a residential refrigerator.   

[Tom Cherry]

1 hour ago, RNMCBR said:

The ARP device is more sophisticated than the Norcold overtemp device. You can read about it at: arprv.com. As with many 3rd party ad ons, there are optional enhancements at higher prices.

If after you get your refrigerator running you discover it is having overtemp issues, I would worry about the health and safety of the cooling unit. You could consider replacing it or converting to either the helium, 12v or 120vac units sold at: jc-refrigeration.com. You can read about them there. Or, as many have suggested you could retrofit to a residential refrigerator.   

YES, we have had members use the ARP system.  That is akin to carrying a canary in a cage into a methane filled mine.  You have to CONSTANTLY monitor or check it out or let it do "its" trick.  All it is gonna tell you.  OMG, the system is overheated.  YES, the thermocouple is more precise.  YES, you do get MORE information.  YES, we had one very sharp person, RIP, that used it and then...it HIT HIM.  Why am I stressing over trying to milk a little more time out of this....  YES, I am an ENGINEER...  YES, I can read all the data...but in the END.... He decided that the risk was not worth it and that the Norcold was going...or was partially gone and WAS Dangerous.  Installed a Samsung.....about the same time I did mine...then we "jousted" of every usage.  He was smart and fanatical....and the "novelty" of the ARP intrigued him...or that was MY TAKE...

There is absolutely NO CORRELATION between when a massive leak will occur and the temperature.  

I spent an hour on the phone, early on, right after Norcold put out the SAFETY SHUTDOWN kit.  The tech was sharp.  He was INVOLVED in the testing.  YES, they designed it with a lower threshold....so it would SHUT DOWN AND NOT ENDANGER lives.

So, the ARP raised the critical threshold.  You can push it as HIGH as you want...but you ARE PUSHING, more precisely measured, past what Norcold considered the FAILED POINT.

The individual that designed it, based on the comments and posts, was knowledgeable.  BUT....it also is just the SAME as the Safety Shutdown...more precise....and Norcold KNEW from the tests what the problems were and WHEN to SHUTDOWN (one SHOT MODULE) to prevent a fire.

Sort of like...  I have a TPMS.  I know that the alarm will go off at X PSI (low).  BUT, I have done my research and I can probably, if I slow down go past that point....continue to drive and the sidewalls will not heat up above 180 dF....You are BETTING on how you can "BEAT THE ODDS" for a little longer.

That is MY TAKE on it and as a Retired Safety and also Resource Conservation (Fire and Building SAFETY) Director...  I do NOT THINK IT PRUDENT TO TRUST IT.  I have to think how many incidents or near misses that I investigated because someone thought they could bypass or get a LITTLE MORE out of a system that had failed...but not shut down.

Maybe others will differ...but all I know is what I was told, early on....before the LAWYERS got involved...from an open and honest Norcold tech. Later on, he would NEVER have been allowed to discuss such....  I know... I also was involved in Recalls and Product Safety....you are SILENCED.....

You MH...  Your family...  Your decision....

[pulsarjab]

I installed a Frigidaire model FFHT1425VB. It is almost 14 cubic feet. I would have preferred a French door with ice and water in the door, but did not want to go through the hassle of modifying the enclosure for the furnace.  No handles on doors to protrude into narrow hallway and the depth is perfect. The Norcold went out the emergency exit window and the Frigidaire came in the same window. I removed the doors from both to fit through window. It may have gone out the entry door if I removed the front seat, but the window was easier.

Dayton on my bucket list.

Greg

KE0BHY

[ak2handr]

8 hours ago, pulsarjab said:

I know this is not helpful in solving your immediate problem but I feel compelled to offer my experience one more time. 

[snip]

I found a nice Frigidaire that would fit in the space, ($600) and with the help of two friends, we installed it in one day. It will run 24 hours on batteries,

KE0BHY de KL7HNY

RRR

 Greg,  that sounds like an affordable way to regain peace of mind.  Curious: re: running on batteries -- do you run it on your inverter and just try not to turn your batteries inside-out?  Or shut it down whilst driving, or ??  It seems like the choices involve either only running the new fridge when you're parked with shore power, run your generator all the time, or only allow the inverter to power the fridge for a half-hour out of every two hours on the road?  Your solution sounds very attractive, especially as we don't use the coach very often.  And I see there's an icemaker kit for another $100.  I've gotten pretty spoiled having unlimited ice here at the home QTH.

tnx agn es 73,

KE0BHY de KL7HNY

diddly dahdidah                    dit dit

4 hours ago, Tom Cherry said:

YES, we have had members use the ARP system.  That is akin to carrying a canary in a cage into a methane filled mine.  You have to CONSTANTLY monitor or check it out or let it do "its" trick.  A

There is absolutely NO CORRELATION between when a massive leak will occur and the temperature.  

I  BUT, I have done my research and I can probably, if I slow down go past that point....continue to drive and the sidewalls will not heat up above 180 dF....You are BETTING on how you can "BEAT THE ODDS" for a little longer.

That is MY TAKE on it and as a Retired Safety and also Resource Conservation (Fire and Building SAFETY) Director...  I do NOT THINK IT PRUDENT TO TRUST IT.  I have to think how many incidents or near misses that I investigated because someone thought they could bypass or get a LITTLE MORE out of a system that had failed...but not shut down.

 

Tom,

I greatly appreciate your perspective on the issue. And you've clearly done the homework on the (kinda-} stock way to deal with it. I've managed to cheat death a few times at work -- twice having buildings collapse while I was inside fighting fires, being shot at by felonious miscreants who objected to my presence, diving under lake ice in an attempt to find near-drowning victims while there was still a chance to same them.   And for all those times, I was at least trained and (sorta) prepared.  But having our cozy little home-on-wheels suddenly turn into an oven would be pretty bleak, at best.  Sounds like going the residential-style fridge might well be the most prudent of alternatives.

Woohoo! The Little Woman (a/k/a She Who Must Be Obeyed) has just informed me that the HWH kit has arrived.  Out to go tilt at windmills.

All for now, but "Aah'll bee bock!"

-- Barney --

Edited September 1 by ak2handr

[pulsarjab]

The Frigidaire is very frugal on electricity. I run it on house batteries all night long. I always check charge in morning and will charge batteries with gen. In transit, the frig runs on house batteries which are being charged by the engine. When hooked up to shore power there is no issue. In other words, once we put food in the frig it is running all the time until we get back home. The bank of four batteries is more than adequate to power the frig.

Greg

2000 Diplomat