Norcold 1200LRIM s/n 8206262 worked when last parked in 2020; now shows no signs of life

[Georgia Mike]

We were on a trip with our friends who have a Motorhome with a Dometic 1062 about a month ago. One evening around 9pm he texts me and says there is a strong smell in the Motorhome. I went over and immediately smelled ammonia so I ran outside and took the access cover off and could hear a loud sizzling sound and extreme heat coming off of the coils along with a strong smell of ammonia. I was afraid it was going to catch fire at any second. Fortunately he had it running on ac so i told him to turn it off on the inside and then I pulled the ac plug to the fridge. I really think that thing would have caught fire very shortly if we hadn’t disconnected it. He wanted to keep the fridge so I told him to order the JC 12 volt compressor unit. I helped him install the new unit when we got back and now it’s not a fire hazard. He is extremely happy with it because it cools down much quicker and much colder in the freezer. I’m just happy he didn’t delay texting me because it could have been a disaster. 

[Tom Cherry]

OK....  MOST, if NOT ALL, of the MODERN Res Refers will WORK....GREAT....on even the OLDER Modified Square Wave INVERTERS.  MOST of the MH's have TWO Refrigerator OUTLETS....  ONE is ONLY FOR SHORE use...as in the HEATERS.  The OTHER is the ICEMAKER circuit.  It is POWERED off the INVERTER.  MOST of the MH's from early 2000's have a DRIVE AND CHARGE THE HOUSE device.  Look at your MANUAL.

Therefore...it is a matter of PLUG and PLAY.  

As to the ENERGY CONSUMPTION.  Myself, the late Hot Rod (engineer with electrical experience) and myself....as well as OTHER....like Richard (Dr4Film) have run the Kilowat meters.  I have one....just to play with.   We also have discussed this so many times at the Gatherings.   THE RULE OF THUMB.  You can BOONDOCK for at least 24 HOURS....with the Res Refer ON.  You need to USE the ENERGY setting.  You need to TURN OFF the icemaker.  MOST of us have converted to LED's so that helps with Battery usage.  BUT, as long as you run the GENNY for about 2 hours....every 24 Hours...you can easily run it.

As far as DRIVING.....check out HOW your MH works.  I'm gonna bet that your MICROWAVES stay on.  The Icemaker circuit runs off the one of the INVERTED circuits....usually the GFCI or the Interior outlets.

SO, an older MSW inverter will do just fine.  MOST....THANKFULLY, of the Monaco's have TWO LOAD LINES off the GFCI. One is USUALLY running to the Icemaker.  IF you have this, it is SIMPLE to move the Icemaker LOAD line to the LINE side of the GFCI.  OMG....I'll be electrocuted.  NOT.  Your HOME Res Refer is NOT, by CODE, a GFCI.  

NOW....there are some municipalities...that require that....but most do NOT. Supposedly, there is a NEW rev where a GFCI is supposed to be used on a Dedicated Res Refer circuit.  Your MICROWAVE is also on a straight Breaker...dedicated.

SO....reconfiguring is NOT leaving you at risk....

I have coached at least 50 or so members on HOW to do it....

That's the straight story....

[RNMCBR]

It’s impossible to have an exchange of ideas about troubleshooting a Norcold without it getting hijacked into a charged up advocacy for residential refrigerators. 

I appreciate all the objective input on converting but wish it were posted in a separate thread. I will probably install some version of mechanical refrigeration before long so I’m interested in hearing about all the options. I just get frustrated when a troubleshooting exchange gets off topic. 
I probably shouldn’t react this way but it makes me reluctant to contribute to the forum. 
 

 

[pulsarjab]

33 minutes ago, RNMCBR said:

It’s impossible to have an exchange of ideas about troubleshooting a Norcold without it getting hijacked into a charged up advocacy for residential refrigerators. 

I appreciate all the objective input on converting but wish it were posted in a separate thread. I will probably install some version of mechanical refrigeration before long so I’m interested in hearing about all the options. I just get frustrated when a troubleshooting exchange gets off topic. 
I probably shouldn’t react this way but it makes me reluctant to contribute to the forum. 
 

 

The issue for me is I could not let this situation go by without informing the individual of the inexpensive way to fix the issue. They had not researched previous post where I detailed the replacement and were not aware of the opportunity. I would feel guilty if a life were lost because I sat ideally by while they continue to patch a known fire hazard. As I stated, I too had done patches for many years.

We all have experiences that are extremely useful and sharing is the only way for me to make the best decision. And now it seems you and I have hijacked this thread.

[Tom Cherry]

From the staff and Moderation standpoint, we usually skim or read every post…. Several reasons.  From not going down a path from an inverter issue morphs into an air leak….which happens and as our membership has grown, is NOW a bit “more of an issue”.

 Next is for the accuracy as well as the completeness of some of fhe troubleshooting and suggestions,  This is to ensure that someone, seemingly knowledgeable, may have made an assumption and then posts a comment about a 2001 Dynasty thinking that a 2008 has the same component or the same circuit.  Also, telling a member yo find the solenoid with two yellow and purple wires and splice them. That is the feedback we get when the recommendations do not pertain or even relate to the issue.

Finally….personal safety issues.  Right, wrong or indifferent the Norcold falls into a “major concern” issue.  Too many times the response may be…cut open the box and splice the wires.  There is a sister topic on Norcold right now and a discussion of how to make it work using alternative means when the recall box has, IIRC, shut down.  

So….yes….it is frustrating when the most common solution is to remove and replace….but trying to parse and delete or hide or edit the comments is impossible.

Next up….is the fact that there is a plethora of information in our files on the Norcold.  Documents like the service manual….wishfully asked for early on.  The new topic guidelines call for a SEARCH of the subject.  If that had been done, then this is the result for FILES.

https://www.monacoers.org/search/?q=Norcold&quick=1&type=downloads_fill

The main Norcold file has 5 doc….and one is the 67 page service manual.

Second….if the search phrase Norcold Repair had been executed and used Topics….then ALL of the past info and troubleshooting tips would have been found.  It does take time to scan and read them…but as one poster pointed out, there was a solution….posted PRIOR…that he felt was germane.

The “hijacking” frustrations are noted…but not following the new topic guidelines is also a frustration….for the Staff and many experienced and mega resource contributors.

Lets move on.  Please download the manual.  Please do the Topic Search. Please, to all members, stay focused….but when the personal safety and “frustration” of any gas refrigeration pops up….the common….I daresay 90% solution….is remove and usually a Res Refer is the Choice….THANKS

[tommcd]

Don't mess around with this refridge,  they have caused a lot of fires in their factory configuration.  Your problem is more than likely the thermal limiter switch has tripped which means it is getting way too hot. Go to JC refridgeration in Ind  website,  they have a couple of excellent choices in new cooling units to fit that refridge .   I went with the 12v compressor type and firmly believe that I couldnt have made a better choice.. A new unit is around $4ooo , a new residential fridge is around 1500 and up and only works on 120v .  This 12v unit will work anywhere and it is awesome.  The original units were absorbed gas type and they were ok when new, but when left to sit for awhile , the ammonia gas solidfies somewhat nd they lose their efficency.  Dont take a chance on fire by by passing the thermal switch or even resetting it.  Oh.. by the way the new cooling unit was $1550 shipped to me. I put my own in, took about 5 hrs .

[ak2handr]

2 hours ago, tommcd said:

Don't mess around with this refridge, 

......[snippage ensueth heretofore]

....Dont take a chance on fire by by passing the thermal switch or even resetting it.  Oh.. by the way the new cooling unit was $1550 shipped to me. I put my own in, took about 5 hrs .

Tom,

    Thank you for the insight and specifics about what/how/who/where/$$$.  It sounds like a great balance of safety & cost. 

   I appreciate your thoroughness. This gives me a sensible alternative to nursemaid-ing my way through resuscitating Ye Olde Beastie.

 -- Barney in NC --

[Tom Cherry]

1 hour ago, ak2handr said:

Tom,

    Thank you for the insight and specifics about what/how/who/where/$$$.  It sounds like a great balance of safety & cost. 

   I appreciate your thoroughness. This gives me a sensible alternative to nursemaid-ing my way through resuscitating Ye Olde Beastie.

 -- Barney in NC --

YES...  THAT is ONE OPTION.  However....again...a CAVEAT.  The DOOR Seals are a wear item.  Many folks have found that the NO CO or it ain't cooling or it is BEEPING is when the Pressure test fails.  There are only TWO solutions....or THREE.... MAYBE.  FIND a discarded used one and use the doors.

Norcold does NOT sell the NEW seals.  They were FACTORY installed.  We have had numerous folks...at least 25 or so...over the years get CREATIVE.  Typically, they purchase some heavy duty (it is call TYGON) clear plastic tubing.  Lowes USED to sell it.  They find the RIGHT SIZE.  Then they pull the seal apart and stuff the tubing inside.  That new, thicker wall tubing will expand or make the seal stick up HIGHER (or further out).  They are careful on the corners...and have had to sort of MITER or trim and make the ends at each corner a little THINNER....otherwise...the door will NOT close properly... it is a TRIAL and ERROR but it seems to work.

Next up....

There was or is ....don't know if they are STILL in business... company in Hampstead NC that has SOME replacement seals.  This was posted a while back....the POWER OF SEARCHING....as STATED previously.....

As one who had a 3 year old (was a 2003 Manufactured Year Norcold 1200....The seals started to FAIL in 2008.  DROVE my wife crazy.  We tried to NOT load the doors....and that really cuts down on the USEFULNESS of the unit...and it NEVER went away.  Had Extended Warranty....the Tech did the DOLLAR BILL test.  ALL the DOORS...  I was going to schedule it for fix....and only cost me $100....but then the Camelot came along. 

I do have 2 1/2 years of USING the MH...a Winnie with the Norcold.  It started the seal issue about 4 years after it was made...it was a 2004...  And I was the second owner.  NOW...it was used for "Tailgating".  MAYBE the doors were loaded with 6 packs...and then driven to ball games.

BUT....we have had COUNTLESS individuals with seal problems and they tried to salvage the doors from a Replacement. 

Do what you want to do...but be aware....that the SEALS are an issue... I would test or have a knowledgeable tech TEST the seals....or READ UP  and watch the YouTube Videos...or google how to test.  THEN....and only THEN...would I spend the money...being aware that if the SEALS GO...you will have issues....and it HAS HAPPENED...

Forewarned is Forearmed...

 

[96 EVO]

On 9/1/2024 at 10:28 AM, Tom Cherry said:

 

So, the ARP raised the critical threshold.  You can push it as HIGH as you want...but you ARE PUSHING, more precisely measured, past what Norcold considered the FAILED POINT.

 

You have this wrong!

The ARP Fridge Defend shuts down power / propane at 422F.

The Norcold recall temperature control box.... 1112F.

Yes, I own an ARP controller!

https://www.arprv.com/troubleshoot-norcold-recall.php#:~:text=Restated%2C the Norcold temperature sensor,seconds should reset the control.

[ak2handr]

Update on my Fabulous Fridge Foul-Up 

So, I tried changing two variables simultaneously.  I know: it flies in the face of accepted Scientific Method, wherein one changes only one variable at a time, so as to determine which factor is at fault.

  Even though where I park next to my house is  kinda-sorta-level, this morning I put an official 24" spirit level on the floor of the fridge.  Fore-and-aft was out by right at one whole bubble. I do not have a good conversion to degrees, whose values are specified by the service manual.  Once I engaged Bertha's auto-leveling machinery, she was up to dead-level along both axes. Yay!

    AND

Amazon finally delivered my stack of neodyium magnets.  Geez, these things are powerful -- rated at 110 lbs of pull. I think I lost thoughts when one passed close to my brainpan. Anyway, I was able to get a satisfying CLICK when I manipulated it around the upper-right corner (as looking from outside the coach.) The red eye of he ogre on the recall box extinguished.  I went in and found the decimal point on the eyebrow display illuminated.  

    So I set the display to "Au"     LP is on, and a 110v, 20A shore power line is attached to Bertha, keeping the batteries at optimal voltage.  After two hours, a thermometer in the freezer shows 4.8 dF, and one in the more-or-less middle of the fridge says 41 dF.

I have just now opened all 4 doors to let the cold out, then set it on LP and closed the doors again. The flame in the flame box is a nice blue. After an hour on LP the interior temps are 14 dF in the freezer, 47 dF in the middle of the fridge.

I don't know if the propane delivers substantially less BTU than the 120 vAc heaters per unit time?

Curiously, however, I cannot hear the muffin fans running, and when I use a mirror and bright flashlight, I do not see anything moving up there.  During all this troubleshooting time, the service cover for the control & combustion chamber has been off.  So I don't know if natural convection through that big, 2-foot-square hole is allowing enough fresh air to come in passively to allow combustion and let the chimney effect take care of all necessary circulation up and over the fridge's cooling fins.  

   The wire loop in the manual shows 1.58 kOhms resistance on my DMM. The schematic in the manual appears to show the fans are in parallel. So, assuming both fans have the same resistance, each fan has a resistance of about 3,16 kOhms, and the current from 13.6 Vdc computes to only 4 mA through the whole loop. The thermal switch and the wire loop for the fans has to have *some* resistance. Actually metering the loop current with a series ammeter shows 49.5 mA. I'm not sure what's faulty with my technique, but the total loop current is just about right for a pair of fans, per the spec sheet by the fan manufacturer.

  But at any rate, it seems the fans *aren't" turning.    I'm sure I'm missing some fundamental factor in my figuring, and (perhaps because of the magnets nearby my brain?) I'd love more input from folks who've gone through this before.  Is the missing cover (during troubleshooting) replacing the fans' function and allowing this whole thing to (at least nominally) work?  I wouldn't relish removing the whole fridge unit just to replace the fans.  Also, I noticed in the manual that my fans seem to be in the "older/lower" position than later units.

Edited September 4 by ak2handr
Typos -- again

[96 EVO]

Fan in back of my Dometic fridge doesn't run unless it reaches a certain temperature back there.

Usually takes the sun beating on that side for it to start.

Don't know if the Norcold works the same.

Edited September 3 by 96 EVO

[Tom Cherry]

From the staff and Moderation standpoint, we usually skim or read every post…. Several reasons.  From not going down a path from an inverter issue morphs into an air leak….which happens and as our membership has grown, is NOW a bit “more of an issue”.

 Next is for the accuracy as well as the completeness of some of fhe troubleshooting and suggestions,  This is to ensure that someone, seemingly knowledgeable, may have made an assumption and then posts a comment about a 2001 Dynasty thinking that a 2008 has the same component or the same circuit.  Also, telling a member yo find the solenoid with two yellow and purple wires and splice them. That is the feedback we get when the recommendations do not pertain or even relate to the issue.

Finally….personal safety issues.  Right, wrong or indifferent the Norcold falls into a “major concern” issue.  Too many times the response may be…cut open the box and splice the wires.  There is a sister topic on Norcold right now and a discussion of how to make it work using alternative means when the recall box has, IIRC, shut down.  

So….yes….it is frustrating when the most common solution is to remove and replace….but trying to parse and delete or hide or edit the comments is impossible.

Next up….is the fact that there is a plethora of information in our files on the Norcold.  Documents like the service manual….wishfully asked for early on.  The new topic guidelines call for a SEARCH of the subject.  If that had been done, then this is the result for FILES.

https://www.monacoers.org/search/?q=Norcold&quick=1&type=downloads_fill

The main Norcold file has 5 doc….and one is the 67 page service manual.

Second….if the search phrase Norcold Repair had been executed and used Topics….then ALL of the past info and troubleshooting tips would have been found.  It does take time to scan and read them…but as one poster pointed out, there was a solution….posted PRIOR…that he felt was germane.

The “hijacking” frustrations are noted…but not following the new topic guidelines is also a frustration….for the Staff and many experienced and mega resource contributors.

Lets move on.  Please download the manual.  Please do the Topic Search. Please, to all members, stay focused….but when the personal safety and “frustration” of any gas refrigeration pops up….the common….I daresay 90% solution….is remove and usually a Res Refer is the Choice….THANKS

17 minutes ago, 96 EVO said:

Fan in back of my Dometic fridge doesn't run unless it reaches a certain temperature back there.

Usually takes the sun beating on that side for it to start.

Don't know if the Norcold works the same.

Ben, please read the posts. This has already been posted.

UNLESS your ARP is connected to the internal OEM fans….there are TWO, i think on the Norcold and TWO on the Dometic…..there is a SNAP DISK thermostat on the left side of the cooling fins heat “dissipater” on the top.  Visible easily when the upper cover is off.  THAT is what controls the Dometic and the Norcold.  The Dometic comes on around 120 dF.  The fans blow air up (these are muffin fans….so it ain’t a hurricane).  Or helps the flue exhaust the heat….therefore cooling down the refrigerant.  Then if has a Delta T of 15 dF (memory) so, the temp has to drop to 105….and it shuts off.

NORCOLD uses the SAME size and shape button thermostat.  But theirs has to cool down to maybe 95 or so…the range on the Nor old is 10 - 15 dF cooler…so it runs cooler….  NO IDEA about the internals of the burner…but the outer most fin where the snap disk is…that is the control point.

[ak2handr]

<sigh>   Sometimes I realize I've omitted something really stupid....

   All this time, the "coldness" control has been set on 7 of 9   (ST-TNG reference just a happy coincidence).  IIRC, that was the setting we last had the fridge on when we drove from NC to WA to NC five years ago.

So now it's on 9.  I'll check it again in a couple of hours & report back.  Maybe this is all how the thing is supposed to behave.  This MH is the sum total of my experience with RVs and their sundry "moods."

-- Barney --

[ak2handr]

6 hours ago, Tom Cherry said:

[massive snippage herein]

There was or is ....don't know if they are STILL in business... company in Hampstead NC that has SOME replacement seals.  This was posted a while back....the POWER OF SEARCHING....as STATED previously.....

As one who had a 3 year old (was a 2003 Manufactured Year Norcold 1200....The seals started to FAIL in 2008.  DROVE my wife crazy.  We tried to NOT load the doors....and that really cuts down on the USEFULNESS of the unit...and it NEVER went away.  Had Extended Warranty....the Tech did the DOLLAR BILL test.  ALL the DOORS...  I was going to schedule it for fix....and only cost me $100....but then the Camelot came along. 

[more snippage to endage]

Yupperz --   C&S Appliance Service            admin_service@csapplianceservice.net              (910) 526-5029

I emailed them through their site.  Their site does not list Norcold at all, but I shall report back with what they answer.

-- Barney --

[Dr4Film]

Pleased to hear that your super magnet worked to reset the NotSoCold "Black Box". That will allow power to your fridge. Now, make sure that if it trips once again within a short time of using the fridge everyday, then most likely you have a failed cooling unit. Do NOT reset it again unless you think it was caused by something else and not the cooling unit overheating.

Regarding the fans, there is a temperature controlled snap disc located up near the top of the fridge before the rooftop exhaust port. That snap disc has to reach the specified temperature, then it will close and turn on your fans in the rear to help exhaust the heat.

[ak2handr]

16 minutes ago, Dr4Film said:

Pleased to hear that your super magnet worked to reset the NotSoCold "Black Box". That will allow power to your fridge. Now, make sure that if it trips once again within a short time of using the fridge everyday, then most likely you have a failed cooling unit. Do NOT reset it again unless you think it was caused by something else and not the cooling unit overheating.

Thank you!

I'll be putting a couple of independent thermistors in various places inside the "service compartment" for the fridge.  I'll see what they say.  So far everything seems hunky-dory (please excuse the technical term 🙂    And a thermocouple to activate a low-power UHF transmitter so I'll get a timely notice of bad things happening.

16 minutes ago, Dr4Film said:

Regarding the fans, there is a temperature controlled snap disc located up near the top of the fridge before the rooftop exhaust port. That snap disc has to reach the specified temperature, then it will close and turn on your fans in the rear to help exhaust the heat.

 

That's comforting. Apparently the temp up there hasn't gotten high enough to trip them on. I'll be keeping an eye on Bertha over the next several days.  I still have to reassemble the flue box on the HWH so I can close that back up.

THEN all I think I have to do to make Bertha roadworthy again is re-spool the two electrically-operated shades on the inside of the windshield.  The last time we had them unfurled, the ambient temp was 108dF, and the glue/tape/staples/whatever gave up trying to hold the shades on the dowels.  That's my next project; I'll bring a variable DC supply out to the dinette and work in comfort. 

-- Barney --

[96 EVO]

2 hours ago, Dr4Film said:

Pleased to hear that your super magnet worked to reset the NotSoCold "Black Box". That will allow power to your fridge. Now, make sure that if it trips once again within a short time of using the fridge everyday, then most likely you have a failed cooling unit. Do NOT reset it again unless you think it was caused by something else and not the cooling unit overheating.

 

I agree!

If you watch the youtube clip in the link I provided, you will see that 'black box' will allow the boiler to get too waaaay too high of a temperature before shutting down the fridge!

To be honest, I wouldn't sleep well with only that thing preventing the boiler from overheating! 

The ARP works well!

[Tom Cherry]

Thanks for clarifying the ARP.  There was a MAJOR discussion on this at least 10 years ago. The proponent of it....among others... was, I THINK, Bill Groves. He was a persistent cuss, God Bless his stubborn soul and would research things.  This was also during the preponderance of RV fires, 95% attributable to the Norcold.  TO DATE and my MEMORY, we have never had a FIRE or such from the Dometic 1402, which was the "UPGRADE" that Monaco put in the Camelot...and maybe the Dynasty rather than the Norcold.

Mine came with the Dometic. 

The crux is this.  The Norcold's RECALL DEVICE...if you read the 4 files in the NORCOLD "File" in the Files section go in to details.  ARP and it's website offer their own "explanations".  Whether all their claims and such are PR or FACT....that is up to an individual to sort through.  If you google ARP NORCOLD FIX....there are at least 10 hits on other sites and the debate and comments reminds me of two politicians that are "GOING TO FIX" a major problem...but have totally different approaches.

In addition, and I don't know the time line...  The ARP folks have expanded the scope of their products.  Early in in 2010, a fellow Camelot owner and myself experimented with a "Table Top" version of the Fantastic Vent Fan.  Fantastic sold them and CW stocked them.  We added the supplement exhaust fan to the upper vent and also changed out....as in LOWERED the operating temperature....but using the Norcold snap disk instead of the higher temperature OEM Dometic.  I know that at least 10 or more older members did the same thing and all reported an improvement in cooling.

Some members also tapped into the existing Norcold Fan circuit...and added fans to the roof vent.  Dr4 Film, I THINK....did the same thing.

THEN ARP started expanding their product line and now offers the same "concept".  if you read the other posts....there are some interesting stories about how much and how "intense" adding the additional cooling fans were.  The bottom line.  Whether you blow air UP around the burner (and Dometic said, when I talked to them....DO NOT DO THIS...it will impact the BURNER operation).....which is what ARP does.... OR

If you add Supplemental exhaust to the upper stack or flue.....  The end result.  The performance improves.

NOW....having said that.  IN MY CASE....the reality or such of the Dometic started to hit circa 2015. The performance dropped way off and it was NOT the same unit that I souped up in 2010.  Therefore....after a LOT OF testing and talking to several well know Gas Refer techs....  I concluded that the system must have a "leak" or that something was amiss in the controls....but the diagnostics did NOT indicated that.

My criteria was simple.  How long...on say an 85 deg day, does it take to cool down the Dometic.  Then, when you load in cold (from the fridge) drinks and other items, how long does it take to recover?  My "Non Engineer" but logic wife summed it up.  I can't buy all the cold stuff I need when we are out....and do my once per 5 or 8 days replenishment.  If I bring home all those...and put it in the Dometic, it takes 24 hours for the ice cream to "HARDEN" again.

THAT was the bottom line.

SO, if the Dometic or a Norcold is working and cooling and recovering properly...  GREAT.  But if it is waning....then additional exhaust (per Dometic...not updraft) may be recommended...and EFFECTIVE..  BUT if NOT...then the refrigeration portion...assuming the controls are OK....is failing...  NOW...when does that failure turn into a concern?  THERE IN lies the dilemma....and the CONCERNS FOR SAFETY.