REVISED. Poll ADDED. . How long did your Norcold 1200 run before failure?

[VinceB]

My last bout with the temperature sensor module that was installed as part of the recall made me think of how much life might be left on my 1200.  It works surprisingly well... so far.

Going over my trip notes, I figure that I have 690 total days where the refrigerator was operating. The rest of the time it sits idle. I'm unsure what the previous owner did but it had 39,000 on the clock when I bought it.  So add another 100. Too bad there's no Hobbs on them.

We're in So Cal so it doesn't see a lot of moisture nor salt, etc. At 790 days, just over 2 years operating, it is a lot less than a full-timer would have.

I think it would be interesting to get data on how many days, on average, they go before failure and what conditions they were subjected to.

[bklaes]

Three years.  Records show 9/14/2021 (crazy), my Norcold 1200 got the Amish rebuild at National in Shipshewana.  It now keeps everything nicely cold and I'm happy with the rebuild.

Althought once a month the ice bin needs to be thawed and dumped because the bottom of the bin is 1/2" solid ice.  I've been meaning to call National.  I'm confident they would help.

90% of the time the coach sits in a climate controlled garage, city water on, ice maker on, plugged into 50amp.

[Tom Cherry]

Google this

average life expectancy of Norcold 1200

many interesting articles.  The 12/13 years is a “statement”, perhaps WITH or WITHOUT a legitimate basis.  If you study all the articles….and “facts”…..also research here, the failures are attributed to reduction of the cross section area or the thickness of the refrigeration tubing as well poor or perhaps, less than preferred manufacturing processes.  Supposedly the refrigerators or maybe the cooling units were transferred to Mexico.  Having experience in relocating complex manufacturing operations and starting up a new facility…..this is, unfortunately, the norm.  Raw material suppliers are often not the same quality nor reliabllity as the domestics and even with seasoned domestic personnel training workers, there can, as well as, have been products that are not the same quality as the original domestic.

The issue dates back to units made, personnel experience, in 2003.  My 2004 Winnebago was voluntarily recalled for a “potential” fire hazard….originally thought or attributed to a faulty room vent and “flue” design.  By the mid 2008’s or so, the unsavory details were coming out.

The original Yahoo site had many ongoing discussions and I was charged with getting information from Norcold.  My discussions were “pre legal” oversight.  The two techs intalked to were honest and forthright.  There was a major manufacturing SNAFU.  They were involved in helping design and develop the shutoff device.

This has been posted and discussed ad infinitum.  Use the search function.

There is no pat or answer to your question.  They will fail…a matter of time and not “IF”.  Many were replaced for common issues like the door seals failing….again, a change in suppliers and assembly. Many will fail due to board or control issues.  Many will fail due to decreased cooling capacity. Many have failed…and caught fire due to a massive refrigeration leak.

Many are still in use and have been converted to the more reliable Amaish or to a 12 VDC compressor.  As long as the door seals are fuctional…and I had one that failed after 3 years…..they will work.  As long as parts or boards are available…..they should work.

BUT, the real issue is the life expectancy of the gas refrigeration system…..and that is well known.  It will fail….and the lawsuits and sich offer more than enough solid documentation.  Use it and understand the risks and follow the recall instructions…..

Sort of like asking how long a set of tires will last.  Many folks that drive very little might have 10 - 20 years on their tires.  The recommendation from auto manufacturers and tire manufacturers…..start to monitor after 6 years and replace at 10.

That’s how this situation has played out and its up to a member and their “betting against the odds” and their concerns about personal safety.

 

[waterskier_1]

This is a difficult question to answer.  My first instinct was to respond that we had absorption refrigerators on our houseboats from the 1970's that were still functioning when we got out of houseboating in 2017, so figure 45 years and still going.  But there are several differences.  The houseboats don't experience near the shock and vibration that a motorhome does.  Ours were generally operated for 6-7 months, mostly continuous (except for defrost cycles) each year, and then not used while in storage for the remaining months.  I don't know the "wear and tear" on startup and shutdown, since there are few moving parts.  Another difference was we only operated on propane.  We never used electricity - some boats didn't have a generator, and the 1970's outboard engines have little for extra battery charging.  But most importantly, they were not 1200-series boxes.  Indeed, we had two 8-cf boxes, side-by-side, in the galley, but I think that was likely due to the 12-cf boxes not being available in the 1970's.  

The primary failure point on the 1200-cf Norcold's (does not apply to Dometic) is the 110 VAC electric heaters that are used when the refrigerator is powered by shore power.  As Tom stated, there were design flaw, mainly the fact that Norcold implemented the 8-cf cooling unit in the 12-cf box, and tried to increase cooling capacity by increasing the BTUs to the cooling unit.  This translates to over spec'ing the 110 VAC heaters, which contributed to compromised coils and leaking, and in come cases, fires.

As Bill mentioned, I also replaced my 1200 cooling unit with an Amish unit - in 2015.  It is still working fine, both on propane and 110 VAC.  But this cooling unit was properly designed.

So, the answer depends on if you are specifically asking about the original 1200 cooling unit because of the design flaws, or are you asking in general about absorption units.  Also, are your concerns mechanical (vibration & shock) related, or general "wear-out".  I'm not sure there is any data collected on any of these scenarios, so I guess it really doesn't matter.

I wouldn't replace my Norcold with another absorption unit.  Today, with the newer inverter (DC Controlled) compressors, and higher energy efficiency, I'd go with a new residential unit.  I would not even consider an Amish conversion, unless I intended to operate on propane 85% of the time.  Even then, I'd likely go with new residential, for a far less cost (not including installation modifications, if necessary) and get a unit with state of the art insulation in the box at the same time.  You can't replace a 1200's door seal, without replacing the whole door (almost as much as a new residential refrigerator).  

  -Rick N.

[VinceB]

All good stuff posted above of which I am virtually entirely read up on. But it appears that I need to ask my questions a different way. 

IF your Norcold 1200 cooling unit failed, how many days would you guess that it was operated?  And how old was it? Are you on the East coast or West coast?

[Jetjockey]

Our experiences with new production appliances is dismal. Hesitant to put  such in place of  original. Have replaced 2 dryers ,3 freezers,2washing machines in 10 years in the house.  New is not necessarily better .

Edited Monday at 09:30 PM by Jetjockey

[Tom Cherry]

2 hours ago, Jetjockey said:

Our experiences with new production appliances is dismal. Hesitant to put  such in place of  original. Have replaced 2 dryers ,3 freezers,2washing machines in 10 years in the house.  New is not necessarily better .

Interesting.  We use Consumer Reports before purchasing.  We also have surge suppression on any appliance that has an LED display.  The local large and well established appliance company REQUIRES a cube type suppressor on refrigerators….and suggests that on microwaves and dishwashers and washing machines.  

Our Microwave is on borrowed time, but am on the second cube…as the first one “fell on its sword” and the MOV’s died.  Our washing machine is maybe 15 years old….and works fine.  We’ve been in the house for 33 years. All new appliances when we moved in.  Put in our own over the stove microwave.  On second microwave, second washer and dryer, refrigerator and dishwasher.  We have frequent “blips” and out “MONSTER” surge suppressors for the TV’s will cut out and protect.

The inherited freezer is a 2005…with NO LED….and our Kurieg is ancient….also on a surge suppressor.

BACK ON POINT….regarding the Norcold…..There is NO CONSUMER REPORTS for the RV industry.  WOULD be great is there was... BUT the history is all out there as well as here....…and we have folks that posted here and and also on IRV2 and many of the google hits link back here.  We probably have the most complete history on the issue….as the members here were savvy and astute when the whole thing came crashing down.

The only “factual” data is with Norcold and protected by Attorney-Client privilege.  Norcold admitted there was a problem….made settlements according to an approved plan or the recall.  Past that…..there is no recourse, unless there was PI PRIOR to the recall and safety device.

There is no magic formula based on years or nights or hours or when manufactured or such.  Hypotheses abound and folks will state as an absolute fact, their gut feel….sometimes misinformed.

Thats all that can be said….the post is “rhetorical” with no method or formula…..

Lets move on…..this is a redundant subject…..

One has to weigh their own personal safety and their “risk tolerance” and decide what to do…if anything….

THANKS……

 

[VinceB]

5 hours ago, Tom Cherry said:

Interesting.  We use Consumer Reports before purchasing.  We also have surge suppression on any appliance that has an LED display.  The local large and well established appliance company REQUIRES a cube type suppressor on refrigerators….and suggests that on microwaves and dishwashers and washing machines.  

Our Microwave is on borrowed time, but am on the second cube…as the first one “fell on its sword” and the MOV’s died.  Our washing machine is maybe 15 years old….and works fine.  We’ve been in the house for 33 years. All new appliances when we moved in.  Put in our own over the stove microwave.  On second microwave, second washer and dryer, refrigerator and dishwasher.  We have frequent “blips” and out “MONSTER” surge suppressors for the TV’s will cut out and protect.

The inherited freezer is a 2005…with NO LED….and our Kurieg is ancient….also on a surge suppressor.

BACK ON POINT….regarding the Norcold…..There is NO CONSUMER REPORTS for the RV industry.  WOULD be great is there was... BUT the history is all out there as well as here....…and we have folks that posted here and and also on IRV2 and many of the google hits link back here.  We probably have the most complete history on the issue….as the members here were savvy and astute when the whole thing came crashing down.

The only “factual” data is with Norcold and protected by Attorney-Client privilege.  Norcold admitted there was a problem….made settlements according to an approved plan or the recall.  Past that…..there is no recourse, unless there was PI PRIOR to the recall and safety device.

There is no magic formula based on years or nights or hours or when manufactured or such.  Hypotheses abound and folks will state as an absolute fact, their gut feel….sometimes misinformed.

Thats all that can be said….the post is “rhetorical” with no method or formula…..

Lets move on…..this is a redundant subject…..

One has to weigh their own personal safety and their “risk tolerance” and decide what to do…if anything….

THANKS……

 

Back on point: I'm just asking a simple question.  It appears that this is lost somehow. I don't understand why this is a problem or how I ruffled feathers.

I don't see a reason for debate - the facts are what they are - the data is what it is.  This in not about risk tolerance - yes, we all know that it is just a matter of time before it WILL fail. POINT TAKEN.

The purpose here is to approximate the lifespan of a certain system. I would think that information would be a benefit to those that read these forums who have not yet made the decision to swap out their refrigerators. The readers here might be motivated to avert a disaster if so informed. Is that a bad thing?

Are we here to help fellow owners or not?  I think we are.

My intent is about  collecting data. It is not redundant nor rhetorical. Engineering people seek data.  I'm just trying to collect data. I don't understand why this is so difficult and why there seems to be so much opposition to collecting that data.

I'll restate my question:

IF your Norcold 1200 cooling unit failed, how many days would you guess/estimate that it was operated?  And how old was it? Are you on the East coast or West coast?

 

[Tom Cherry]

Typically, this site was designed for specific questions.  Of course, there are some “campfire” or rhetorical question or subjects that come up.  While trying to moderate and keep the mission of the site intact, there are always questions as to “what to do?” or “What is your experience?”.

Unfortunately….when these cross into areas of “personal safety”, then the “call” as to moderation and the extent of such gets tricky.

We discourage and have (memory) moderated comments on “gee…my 12 year old tires have good tread and look new….is it safe to keep using them?”.  That may be a touch of cynicism or a bit of hyperbolic sarcasm….but it DOES happen.  

Then, the discussions and posts take on a “campfire” tone….  Yes…maybe some points are made…but when personal safety is at stake….as in “should I keep running my aged out tires?”, then the staff makes a judgement call.

So, along those lines….and to keep this in the context of “my own personal curiosity”….which is assumed NOT TO IMPACT or PLAY THE ODDS on a Personal Safety decision….a poll has been added.

Members can participate and answer the “simple” questions….but comments that might be misconstrued or are biased towards continued use of a know, defective personal safety issue, can and will be moderated.

Therefore, let’s use the poll….and see the results.

IF a member feels strongly, one way or another, concerning the continued use of a failed Norcold, then, please use the PM or MESSAGE option and respond, offline, to a member(s).

Thanks for understanding the concerns and the seriousness of this question and why, even offhanded comments, might as well as have been, in the past…MISUNDERSTOOD. We, the staff hold personal safety as a priority and having to continually edit or post disclaimers is a tedious and seemingly unnecessary burden.

Many “facts” quoted here are taken, perhaps out of context, from other sites….and frequently, far too frequently, are 100% WRONG and have caused damage to Monaco’s.  Long time contributors often “catch” such and alert the staff.

Lets move on….use the poll and not require more moderation…..THANKS.

 

[VinceB]

8 hours ago, Tom Cherry said:

Typically, this site was designed for specific questions.  Of course, there are some “campfire” or rhetorical question or subjects that come up.  While trying to moderate and keep the mission of the site intact, there are always questions as to “what to do?” or “What is your experience?”.

Unfortunately….when these cross into areas of “personal safety”, then the “call” as to moderation and the extent of such gets tricky.

We discourage and have (memory) moderated comments on “gee…my 12 year old tires have good tread and look new….is it safe to keep using them?”.  That may be a touch of cynicism or a bit of hyperbolic sarcasm….but it DOES happen.  

Then, the discussions and posts take on a “campfire” tone….  Yes…maybe some points are made…but when personal safety is at stake….as in “should I keep running my aged out tires?”, then the staff makes a judgement call.

So, along those lines….and to keep this in the context of “my own personal curiosity”….which is assumed NOT TO IMPACT or PLAY THE ODDS on a Personal Safety decision….a poll has been added.

Members can participate and answer the “simple” questions….but comments that might be misconstrued or are biased towards continued use of a know, defective personal safety issue, can and will be moderated.

Therefore, let’s use the poll….and see the results.

IF a member feels strongly, one way or another, concerning the continued use of a failed Norcold, then, please use the PM or MESSAGE option and respond, offline, to a member(s).

Thanks for understanding the concerns and the seriousness of this question and why, even offhanded comments, might as well as have been, in the past…MISUNDERSTOOD. We, the staff hold personal safety as a priority and having to continually edit or post disclaimers is a tedious and seemingly unnecessary burden.

Many “facts” quoted here are taken, perhaps out of context, from other sites….and frequently, far too frequently, are 100% WRONG and have caused damage to Monaco’s.  Long time contributors often “catch” such and alert the staff.

Lets move on….use the poll and not require more moderation…..THANKS.

 

Tom,

LOVE the IDEA!

I would have done that from start had I known how.  

Thanks for all the hard work you do on these forums - been there and done that so I really understand your work here.

Thanks again.

[Bobkat11208]

16 hours ago, VinceB said:

Back on point: I'm just asking a simple question.  It appears that this is lost somehow. I don't understand why this is a problem or how I ruffled feathers.

I don't see a reason for debate - the facts are what they are - the data is what it is.  This in not about risk tolerance - yes, we all know that it is just a matter of time before it WILL fail. POINT TAKEN.

The purpose here is to approximate the lifespan of a certain system. I would think that information would be a benefit to those that read these forums who have not yet made the decision to swap out their refrigerators. The readers here might be motivated to avert a disaster if so informed. Is that a bad thing?

Are we here to help fellow owners or not?  I think we are.

My intent is about  collecting data. It is not redundant nor rhetorical. Engineering people seek data.  I'm just trying to collect data. I don't understand why this is so difficult and why there seems to be so much opposition to collecting that data.

I'll restate my question:

IF your Norcold 1200 cooling unit failed, how many days would you guess/estimate that it was operated?  And how old was it? Are you on the East coast or West coast?

Data point:  We purchased a new Scratch/Dent 1200 directly from an RV mfgr in Sept. 2023 at a highly discounted price. Manufacturing data plate showed April 2023. 
It failed in July 2024 via ammonia leak and was replaced with an Amish 12v cooling unit dual compressor attached to the 1200 box (DW likes the 4 door and the seals are fine). I’m estimating ~45 use days in that timeframe. Ninety percent of that usage was boondocking. 
We’re in Indiana.

Hope this helps.

 

[pulsarjab]

It is hard to answer the poll as stated. When addressing failure, I assume you mean the coils leak. I never experience that but I had to replace a lot of parts to keep it running. Over the years the heaters burned through the wires, the thermostat failed, the controller card failed and was replaced with after market card, and the fans failed and were replaced. Two Ice makers were replaced.

The RV is used for week end trips during the Spring, Summer, and Fall, and all winter in warmer climates.

The flue required periodic cleaning as rust particles would accumulate at the bottom and if not cleaned propane would fail to ignite.

The unit had a twelve year life span before being replaced. It is hard to say when it would fail but I felt it was too risky to continue without replacing.

[Tom Cherry]

27 minutes ago, pulsarjab said:

It is hard to answer the poll as stated. When addressing failure, I assume you mean the coils leak. I never experience that but I had to replace a lot of parts to keep it running. Over the years the heaters burned through the wires, the thermostat failed, the controller card failed and was replaced with after market card, and the fans failed and were replaced. Two Ice makers were replaced.

The RV is used for week end trips during the Spring, Summer, and Fall, and all winter in warmer climates.

The flue required periodic cleaning as rust particles would accumulate at the bottom and if not cleaned propane would fail to ignite.

The unit had a twelve year life span before being replaced. It is hard to say when it would fail but I felt it was too risky to continue without replacing.

For clarification…..the original, rhetorical question was “how long do they last”.  My definition was “FAILED” as in….couldn’t be fixed.

YES….that is broad brushed….but that was the context of the question and the intent was to “answer” it…as stated.

Anymore details…..that has been written so many times….and it can all be read here.  If members want to continue to discuss or speculate on failures and such…then any of the past topics can be used.  The redundancy and keep “chewing” the same bite is the concern.  Our site is probably one of the best and most informative….but there are very few if any “new stones” to be turned over…

Hope this clarifies it….

[Dr4Film]

I purchased the 2002 Windsor in December 2003. The fridge worked fine for a few years except the freezer never was REALLY cold. I put tons of time and money into attempting to get it to work better for us but had to throw out tons of spoiled food while using the NotSoCold. Both fridge doors had fallen off needing to be repaired. I installed extra cooling fans to help it work better but it never did. Finally in 2012 I had it removed and installed a Samsung RF197 and that fridge is still running great for the new owner of the coach 12 years later.

Moderator EDIT and CONCLUSION - TEN (10) years….

[96 EVO]

I haven't owned a Norcold, only Dometic's.

I'm finding they outlive the last 3 residential refrigerators I've purchased for my home! 

[SteveD]

I have a 2003 Safari. Bought my coach in 2023 and the unit was failing. Dealer got it to cool prior to purchase and got it home and it was done. 

It was original equipment. New to big coaches I didn’t want to reinvent the wheel so I changed the cooling unit and the board. Been working great ever since. 
 

After all that work joined this forum and started reading about what a piece of crap these units are supposed to be. But… mine is working great so I’ll keep using it until it gives me trouble. 

[VinceB]

38 minutes ago, SteveD said:

I have a 2003 Safari. Bought my coach in 2023 and the unit was failing. Dealer got it to cool prior to purchase and got it home and it was done. 

It was original equipment. New to big coaches I didn’t want to reinvent the wheel so I changed the cooling unit and the board. Been working great ever since. 
 

After all that work joined this forum and started reading about what a piece of crap these units are supposed to be. But… mine is working great so I’ll keep using it until it gives me trouble. 

On the upside, you know the complete history and the poll will give you some idea of the expected lifespan.

[96 EVO]

2 hours ago, SteveD said:

I have a 2003 Safari. Bought my coach in 2023 and the unit was failing. Dealer got it to cool prior to purchase and got it home and it was done. 

It was original equipment. New to big coaches I didn’t want to reinvent the wheel so I changed the cooling unit and the board. Been working great ever since. 
 

After all that work joined this forum and started reading about what a piece of crap these units are supposed to be. But… mine is working great so I’ll keep using it until it gives me trouble. 

Good to hear, but since it is getting on, I would suggest installing a ARP Fridge Defend on it, just to keep yourself and family safe!

[SteveD]

I was reading about those units. They work good? The idea behind them makes sense. 

[96 EVO]

12 hours ago, SteveD said:

I was reading about those units. They work good? The idea behind them makes sense. 

Yeah, they appear to.

It's shut my fridge down for an hour, twice now for some reason.

[cbr046]

To cast a vote all 3 questions must be answered.  A voter can't ignore 1 & 2.  An extra #N/A box in 1 & 2 would overcome this.

- bob