Guardian Plates scarring floor tile during retraction. 2007 HR Endeavor flush slide.

[snoracer]

This past April I had Tallon RV install the guardian plates on my flush floor slide room.  Now, two of the rivet heads that are used to retain the guardian plates, are rubbing on the kitchen floor tile when the slide room is fully retracted.  They are actually gouging small holes in the tile.  This is only happening on one end of the slide room.  My question is, how can I raise the slide room so that it will ride higher and not rest on the kitchen floor.  Or are there any other suggestions for protecting the floor tile.  Thanks for any help.

Tim

2007 Holiday Rambler Endeavor 40PDQ

[Dr4Film]

When I had my Guardian Plates installed in the spring of 2023, the folks doing the install highly recommended using one of my small throw carpets to put under the rear end of the slide that is nearest the kitchen vinyl laminate flooring when retracting the slide.

I guess the folks doing the installations now may have changed since Chris is no longer at the helm.

I would get yourself some carpeting to slip under that end of the slide when pulling it in.

[JDStew]

3 hours ago, snoracer said:

This past April I had Tallon RV install the guardian plates on my flush floor slide room.  Now, two of the rivet heads that are used to retain the guardian plates, are rubbing on the kitchen floor tile when the slide room is fully retracted.  They are actually gouging small holes in the tile.  This is only happening on one end of the slide room.  My question is, how can I raise the slide room so that it will ride higher and not rest on the kitchen floor.  Or are there any other suggestions for protecting the floor tile.  Thanks for any help.

Tim

2007 Holiday Rambler Endeavor 40PDQ

I love my Guardian plates. When you called Tallon, what recommendations did they provide? Please share for the rest of us. (Thanks to Richard - good hack/practice)

[Steve P]

Talin adjusted my slide, and then I did a follow-up adjustment at Chris's direction (he is now retired).  My slide is full length.  Hydraulic controlled.  The supports / adjusters are several huge bolts that adjust the "tilt" of the slide more than the height as a whole.  They are under the outer edge of the slide and have a lock nut and an adjustment nut if memory serves... something like 1 inch or 1-1/8 inch.  So you basically lower the huge bolts a bit (like 1/8"), secure everything, and observe the result on 3-4 cycles in and out with the slides.  Then adjust more if needed.  All the while being mindful that your seal at the top and the top of the sides is compressing less and less, and you don't want to go too far, or it may leak (and probably will acc. to Murphy). 

I still use small bath carpets purchased at Walmart.  Also, better than that was a product called "Slide Slickers" that Talin told me about.  They are basically 6" wide pieces of hard flat plastic 3-4 feet long.  They can be used on carpet if the slide rides over carpet.  Or on tile (I used a multi/Dremel tool to grind off the little pointy nibs on the bottom that were meant to grip carpet).  The rubber strips on the bottom of the slickers eventually bunched up and I removed them.  We placed the slide slickers where the scuffing and scratching was the worst to prevent any further issues (in case the slide still isn't far enough above the floor at any point.  So, in summary, carpet on the corners, and slide slickers (4 of them) down the length between.  Note:  the slide slickers can become a trip hazard during travel.  Save the original vinyl sleeve they come in to store them during your stays.  The slide rides up on the slide slickers instead of the flooring.

One of my low priorities is to figure out how to refinish the scuffs and scratches in the tile... someday.

[diplomat don]

There are also some slide/glide nylon type pieces that hook onto the flooring end edges that allow the slide to ride on as it comes in. Dave and LJ's rv remodeling in Woodland WA showed them to me when we were exploring  changing from carpet to hardwood. Put then down when bringing the slide in and pick them up after putting it out. Similar to using a piece of carpet or towel but would help distribute the weight better. Have a friend uses them and the save his Vinyl plank floor from getting scratched. Good luck, Don

[snoracer]

Thanks guys for the replies.  Like all of you, I too was told by the folks at Tallon, to put small bath rugs under the slide floor as it comes in.  Trouble is, my slide room is almost 3ft deep and I can't get the rugs far enough under the slide floor.  I already had those slide slickers when I went down to Tallon for the guardian plate install, but they told me that I wouldn't need them any longer, so I tossed them into their dumpster.  I now have another set of them on order from Amazon.  Hopefully that will be the solution.

[Tom Cherry]

I did my own install in 2018.  We have been out for maybe 120 nights.  I used the “towels” as a precaution, per Chris.  With loading and unloading….and also “deciding” that it was TIME to burn up the motor on the Hydraulics as I was trying to isolate a voltage drop….I cycled that big flush slide 3X the number of nights out…and we probably set up and tore down 50 times during that period….plus the “IT or ME” cycling….did find the issue….did burn up the motor…a WIN-WIN in my own warped logic.

BUT we have never had an issue.  I followed Chris’ instructions…and kept the plates pressed UP…while the adhesive cured….which is what 3M and Loctite (used it on one set earlier) said to do.

Later, we added the sliders. We religiously use the plastic sliders.  They are about 8” wide.  They stick out about 2” past the carpet when the slide is fully retracted.  We position them, when the slide is extended, against the lip on the sidewall….where the plates will ride.  We put a “toe” on the tip to hold them in place when we retract.

We KNOW, based on a few “markers” or the tile where to slide them under when we extend.  We have never had an issue.  The slide does NOT rest or pinch them.  As a matter of fact, they slide or move around a  bit when traveling ….so the retracted slide is NOT pressing down or resting on them.

There are NO RIVETS installed on the plates INSIDE or UNDER the slide bottom…INSIDE the outside wall.  ALL the Rivets are “popped” in place from UNDERNEATH and that is OUTSIDE the sidewall. Take that to the bank….i hand set every one of them….this was my third set…so this is real world….done that and not “advice from the sidelines”.

I would grind off the heads of the rivets that are scarring.  I would put a Jack T nearby and lift the slide…with the Jack T plate pressing on the bottom…so, basically, lift the slide maybe 3/4” inch by placing the Jack T on the Guardian plate.  Then DRILL a 3/16” hole….squirt a shot of Loctite PL (caluk gun) into the hole.  Say what you put on your toothbrush (volume or amount). Wipe off the excess. Push in the rivet.  Seat or POP it.  Lower…move the J Tee onto the new rivets.  Lift up 3/4”.  Let that sit for 24 hours or maybe longer. The Loctite PL will bond to the undeside….it ain’t coming down…see if that corrects it.  Use the sliders

[Dr4Film]

My Guardian Plates installed by Talin in 2023 have 8 Stainless Steel pop rivets in the bottom of each plate.

That's why they recommend placing some sort of protection at the end where the vinyl laminate is located. The other end had carpeting there already so that end is protected.

[Steve P]

27 minutes ago, Dr4Film said:

My Guardian Plates installed by Talin in 2023 have 8 Stainless Steel pop rivets in the bottom of each plate.

That's why they recommend placing some sort of protection at the end where the vinyl laminate is located. The other end had carpeting there already so that end is protected.

Same here (pop rivets on the bottom of the plates), and not all slides are created equal.  Use carpet and/or Slide Slickers if you want to be sure.  My slide was adjusted twice by Talin, and once after that under Chris's tutelage.  The issue still remains, though not as bad.  The tolerances obviously vary on clearances of the slide above the floor from coach to coach, and on slide type.  Do the best you can with adjustments.  If the guardian plate is cemented like it should be, it's going to be hard to move it any tighter to the base of the slide (and Talin would normally get it as tight as possible initially).  Adjust, settle in, protect the flooring, and enjoy.  If the scratching persists or gets worse, maybe call and arrange to take it back to Talin.  They had a tech drive from Brooksville to Melbourne to address my issues when Chris was still in charge.  I feel your pain.  Best of luck!

[Tom Cherry]

DUMB QUESTION.  My MEMORY says i have two rollers under the slide.  Now the geometry is that the slide comes in.  It rides on the nylon (white) piece.

The geometry and how mine works.  The refrigerator is in one end.  That drops that “corner” down more.  I KNOW that as, with my Vinyl toppers, it was impossible to keep the slide from sort of warping and creating a pond on the other end, Chris and I meaured and REmeasured.  I would measure the slide at the bottom and top on each end. If the slide’s TOP is closer, then the slide will come in, I THINK, with the leading lower edge “closer to the tile”.  The slide should be adjusted so that the exterior wall of the slide is equidistant at the top and bottom,  otherwise it will be canted or warped.

Check on that,  Call the new owner of Talin and discuss and also talk to the tech..

[Steve P]

@snoracer What works for roller slides does not necessarily work for your flush floor slide (which you said in your original post was the one giving you trouble).  The descriptions and corrective measures I received from the former owner of Talin RV, Chris @throgmartin pertained to my flush floor slide.  

I found a couple pics to help @snoracer confirm that he and I are talking about the same type of slide.  

NOTE: My rig has 3 slides.  The 25' flush floor slide is hydraulic piston-driven.  The other slides ride on rollers over the subfloor or carpet and are electric motor-driven.  I suppose a shorter flush floor slide could be driven by an electric motor.  @snoracer: You can determine which yours uses, I'm sure.

 

 

 

 

 

[Tom Cherry]

2 hours ago, Steve P said:

@snoracer What works for roller slides does not necessarily work for your flush floor slide (which you said in your original post was the one giving you trouble).  The descriptions and corrective measures I received from the former owner of Talin RV, Chris @throgmartin pertained to my flush floor slide.  

I found a couple pics to help @snoracer confirm that he and I are talking about the same type of slide.  

NOTE: My rig has 3 slides.  The 25' flush floor slide is hydraulic piston-driven.  The other slides ride on rollers over the subfloor or carpet and are electric motor-driven.  I suppose a shorter flush floor slide could be driven by an electric motor.  @snoracer: You can determine which yours uses, I'm sure.

My flush floor slide adjustments look like yours.  However, I am about 90% SURE that there are TWO rollers on the sidewall.  I have lubed the "Bearing" areas....if my recollection is correct. Mine had the original "Nylon Glides"  underneath the slides.  The nylon glides were riveted or maybe screwed to the underside of the slide. There was a "TAPER" on the leading edge of each glide.  So, the wide , maybe 6", glides ran on the rollers.  I had to make a special tool to actually shear or cut off two screws that were under the slide...but past the roller.  That was the only way to get off the last piece of the glides. My nylon strips were maybe 1/4" or 3/16" thick. They were known to split and crack.

When I added the Guardian plates, they had to be cut and fitted so that the leading edge of them was close (maybe 1/2 to 1/4" from where the "lift up nylon block of "wide cam" was on the inside. That white nylon, different from the strips, is mounted on the floor.  When the slide is retracted, the Guardian plate rides on the roller (you can see it from the underside if you pull back the seal) and then it engages the cam and that is what lifts up the slide....then the plates slide over the edge or the cam and the outside of the slide (where the plates are) rides on the rollers.

When the slide is extended, you can lift up the carpet and see the edged of the cam. We put our GLIDER strip against the edge of the came and then that protects the floor.  We NEVER had our slide drop down. 

It seems to me that the slide is tilted forward....and it is dropping.  My "brain" says that my slide is running or the Guardian plate is riding on the roller....which is at the outside edge of the sidewall.  The cam or the raised piece of nylon is maybe 6 - 8" further in.  SO, there is an 8" area where the slide, with the Guardian plates is resting or supported.

As the slide continues in....and mine is WIDE...We have a large bench dinette on it.  The leading edge of the slide stays above the TILE....if does TIP a bit toward the end...but ours NEVER "fell" or got down on the tile.

I looked up the depth of the RES Samsung.  There is about 8" of clearance behind it to sidewall of the slide. I think that my slide is very close to 36" depth. The Samsung fits back a smidge so it does NOT protrude over the edge. When we lift up the carpet in front of the refrigerator to position the slide....it has clearance.

Thats the way MINE or the 2008 and up Camelot/Scepters works...and I am almost certain that the slide is riding or supported on rear rollers and a front white nylon cam.

[96 EVO]

5 hours ago, Steve P said:

@snoracer What works for roller slides does not necessarily work for your flush floor slide (which you said in your original post was the one giving you trouble).  The descriptions and corrective measures I received from the former owner of Talin RV, Chris @throgmartin pertained to my flush floor slide.  

I found a couple pics to help @snoracer confirm that he and I are talking about the same type of slide.  

NOTE: My rig has 3 slides.  The 25' flush floor slide is hydraulic piston-driven.  The other slides ride on rollers over the subfloor or carpet and are electric motor-driven.  I suppose a shorter flush floor slide could be driven by an electric motor.  @snoracer: You can determine which yours uses, I'm sure.

Steve, Raising those adjustment bolts would raise the end of the slide, which I'm afraid may make the OP's problem worse!

Lowering that end of the slide 'may' help.

[Steve P]

34 minutes ago, 96 EVO said:

Steve, Raising those adjustment bolts would raise the end of the slide, which I'm afraid may make the OP's problem worse!

Lowering that end of the slide 'may' help.

 Note that the pics are sideways and I don't know how to rotate them.  And the smaller bolts do the height adjusting.  There is also a bolt to secure the vertical position that needs to be loosened first and tightened last.  The really large bolt controls the horizontal travel, and I haven't messed with that.  By the way, T-9 is great for loosening the bolts if they have seized.  If I said "raise" at some point, I didnt mean to... Please re-read my first post, where I wrote "you basically lower the huge bolts a bit (like 1/8"), secure everything, and observe the result on 3-4 cycles in and out with the slides.  Then adjust more if needed."

[Steve P]

@Tom Cherry I took pics for Talin 3 years ago, but cannot find them.  There may well be rollers.  I'll look again when I go to the storage unit.  If there are rollers, I just hope they are not broken or worn.

If so, it may me the reason some of us have more issues with the guardian plates rivets scratching the floors. 

[Tom Cherry]

9 hours ago, Steve P said:

 Note that the pics are sideways and I don't know how to rotate them.  And the smaller bolts do the height adjusting.  There is also a bolt to secure the vertical position that needs to be loosened first and tightened last.  The really large bolt controls the horizontal travel, and I haven't messed with that.  By the way, T-9 is great for loosening the bolts if they have seized.  If I said "raise" at some point, I didnt mean to... Please re-read my first post, where I wrote "you basically lower the huge bolts a bit (like 1/8"), secure everything, and observe the result on 3-4 cycles in and out with the slides.  Then adjust more if needed."

EDIT... I tried ONE MORE TIME.  I finally got the photos rotated in Photoshop and got them to "EDIT" right.  You can see the GREEN GROUND as the reference

As I said...  EACH model is (May... PROBABLY) is unique.  FORTUNATELY....mine is OK.

Ben ( @96 EVO ) has the SAME one as mine.  I your Knight does NOT have rollers, then the "Geometry" or the mechanism of the slide as well as WHAT IT RIDES ON must be understood and adjusted. 

@snoracer

AS STATED....and Ben's comments indicate that he is "Thinking about HIS as well as trying to understand the mechanism", YOUR RIG...an Endeavor MAY or MAY NOT be like the KNIGHT's or the Scepter/Camelot's.  That is what I have to QUALIFY or offer an example of HOW one Flush Slide works.

You need to do some exploration under the slide.  Look at where the plates are.  Pull back or peer into the slide from the underside using a flashlight...pull the wiper seal out of the way.  IF there are ROLLERS...then they may need to be adjusted.

BUT, if your slide runs totally on the Nylon Glide Cam on the inside....and the slide is tilted or canted IN....as in the slide, when extended, is NOT parallel as in the TOP and Bottom distances, on each side are NOT THE SAME.  Then, that needs to be corrected.

Wish I could provide more specific info or guidance...but without a diagram or pictures or understanding of "WHAT's INSIDE...and WHAT THE SLIDE RUNS ON...and HOW IT WORKS", all I can do is offer generic info...

[throgmartin]

Tim,

Sometimes it is impossible to get enough height to where the plates wont scrape on the floor. There is only so much adjustment in these flush floor slides. My best advice is to use the carpet or slickers.

To everyone else: You need to be careful when adjusting the height of a flush floor slide. Clearance at the top of the slide opening is just one concern. But because this slide tilts as it goes in the leading edge of the slide inside the coach can and will scrape the ceiling. I had a customer drive up to see me from Texas. He took his coach into a service center around Dallas and the techs adjusted his flush floor slide. They got so much height during the adjustment that it dented the roof of the slide and wiped out all the puck lights on the ceiling of the coach. They also got it so tilted in the slide hole that one corner scraped the side wall. It took Dustin, my lead tech, and I several hours to get it back to factory specs.

There are limits to adjusting a flush floor slide. My recommendation is to always take baby steps. Get a helper to operate the slide and have them watch the ceiling inside while you watch on the outside. Never try and adjust a slide by yourself. You cannot be in two places at once.

[Tom Cherry]

20 minutes ago, throgmartin said:

Tim,

Sometimes it is impossible to get enough height to where the plates wont scrape on the floor. There is only so much adjustment in these flush floor slides. My best advice is to use the carpet or slickers.

To everyone else: You need to be careful when adjusting the height of a flush floor slide. Clearance at the top of the slide opening is just one concern. But because this slide tilts as it goes in the leading edge of the slide inside the coach can and will scrape the ceiling. I had a customer drive up to see me from Texas. He took his coach into a service center around Dallas and the techs adjusted his flush floor slide. They got so much height during the adjustment that it dented the roof of the slide and wiped out all the puck lights on the ceiling of the coach. They also got it so tilted in the slide hole that one corner scraped the side wall. It took Dustin, my lead tech, and I several hours to get it back to factory specs.

There are limits to adjusting a flush floor slide. My recommendation is to always take baby steps. Get a helper to operate the slide and have them watch the ceiling inside while you watch on the outside. Never try and adjust a slide by yourself. You cannot be in two places at once.

AMEN @throgmartin…..I HOPED you would chime in….

Mine (newer 2008 and above Scepter/Camelot) has the rollers….I THINK…and the slide, with the plates or where the plates run, are supported…..I THINK (THOUGHT) by the white nylon lift cam and also the roller.

You DID caution about potential scraping and we used the “piece of a carpet scrap” as the protection.  PJ McCants tweaked that slide and replace the rivets and adjusted it….a LITTLE.

We also picked up the 8” W X 36” plastic sliders or runways.  We use them….but there has never been a scratch on them….not the tile.

OK!!!

Based on your recollections…. Do ALL FLUSH Slides have the supporting rollers, like mine….or are there some that just “ride” on the white plastic/nylon lift cam?

That info or your input would be great as “typically”….many think….ALL MONACO’s are the same.  FWIW….the Dynasty with HWH is TOTALLY different on the Flush slide…..compared to mine.

THANKS….

[96 EVO]

My flush floor slide has no rollers!

[Dr4Film]

Both my 02 Windsor and my 06 Dynasty have no rollers on the flush-floor slide. They both have a long glide bar that it slides over.

[throgmartin]

Just as an FYI:

I plated a flush floor slide for a customer in Oregon. He swore his flush floor slide had rollers. I had never seen that setup so I didn't believe him until I seen the picture he sent me. I sent the picture to a buddy who worked in Monaco's R & D department. He told me Monaco made 50 coaches with flush floor slides that had rollers and glide bars. It was an experiment based on a Newmar design.

Over the course of my career, I ended up plating 30 of the 50. If you have a coach with this setup, you have a very rare bird. Monaco dropped that design because it added to the cost of each coach. The additional cost had to be less than $ 20.00. Did the rollers help ? Yes and no. They did prevent sagging in the corners, but it did nothing for floor rot. That issue had to do with the design of the slide itself.

 

[Tom Cherry]

1 hour ago, throgmartin said:

Just as an FYI:

I plated a flush floor slide for a customer in Oregon. He swore his flush floor slide had rollers. I had never seen that setup so I didn't believe him until I seen the picture he sent me. I sent the picture to a buddy who worked in Monaco's R & D department. He told me Monaco made 50 coaches with flush floor slides that had rollers and glide bars. It was an experiment based on a Newmar design.

Over the course of my career, I ended up plating 30 of the 50. If you have a coach with this setup, you have a very rare bird. Monaco dropped that design because it added to the cost of each coach. The additional cost had to be less than $ 20.00. Did the rollers help ? Yes and no. They did prevent sagging in the corners, but it did nothing for floor rot. That issue had to do with the design of the slide itself.

 

You are the expert….but I think my Camelot has them. You commented on that is February 2018 and warned us when you took your measurments.

IT has been a while….NUT I recall squirting a lube like TriFlow on each side a few months ago,

@96 EVO.

Does your Scepter…or any 2008 or newer Scepter or Camelot owner…for that matter…. Can you lift up the wiper seal from the underside where the white nylon or plastic “glides” go into the body?  Is there a black rubber roller there?  Or am I hallucinating again?

Thanks for the post, Chris…

[96 EVO]

2 minutes ago, Tom Cherry said:

 

@96 EVO.

Does your Scepter…or any 2008 or newer Scepter or Camelot owner…for that matter…. Can you lift up the wiper seal from the underside where the white nylon or plastic “glides” go into the body?  Is there a black rubber roller there?  Or am I hallucinating again?

Thanks for the post, Chris…

I have installed Guardian Plates on that slide.

I have no rollers on that slide.

[Tom Cherry]

40 minutes ago, 96 EVO said:

I have installed Guardian Plates on that slide.

I have no rollers on that slide.

Thanks.  Now….will I succumb to geriatric jokes about memory or go and check….stay tuned….we are in Fringe of TS/TS#10TC/Helene(?) fury

[snoracer]

3 hours ago, throgmartin said:

Tim,

Sometimes it is impossible to get enough height to where the plates wont scrape on the floor. There is only so much adjustment in these flush floor slides. My best advice is to use the carpet or slickers.

To everyone else: You need to be careful when adjusting the height of a flush floor slide. Clearance at the top of the slide opening is just one concern. But because this slide tilts as it goes in the leading edge of the slide inside the coach can and will scrape the ceiling. I had a customer drive up to see me from Texas. He took his coach into a service center around Dallas and the techs adjusted his flush floor slide. They got so much height during the adjustment that it dented the roof of the slide and wiped out all the puck lights on the ceiling of the coach. They also got it so tilted in the slide hole that one corner scraped the side wall. It took Dustin, my lead tech, and I several hours to get it back to factory specs.

There are limits to adjusting a flush floor slide. My recommendation is to always take baby steps. Get a helper to operate the slide and have them watch the ceiling inside while you watch on the outside. Never try and adjust a slide by yourself. You cannot be in two places at once.

Chris - Thanks for replying.  I have ordered slide slickers and I will use them along with bath carpets.  For everyone else, here's a little more info about my coach.  My flush floor slide is operated by an electric motor, not hydraulic.  There are no rollers, only the nylon glide bars.  I have removed the original carpet and replaced it with LVP.  I removed the original RV fridge and replaced it with a Whirlpool residential fridge.  The whirlpool is WAY lighter than the original Dometic, and it fit through the entry door.  When I removed the dometic, I found that the drain tube for the self defrost had rotted, was broken and had been draining water onto the topside of the floor which added to the rot problem.  That's why I decided to have Tallon do the guardian plate install.  Also, I removed the jacknife sofa and replaced it with a cabinet/electric fireplace unit.  Thanks everyone for all the info.