No 120 V from inverter 2002 Monaco Signature All Electric

[RalphP]

2002 Monaco Signature All Electric.  All appliances and 120 V outlets work great under shore or generator.  Once I switch to inverter no 120 V.  Inverter says "inverting", batteries are charged and charge under shore and gen.  I really need the inverter power.  I have 2 - Trace RV 3012 3000 W inverters and 5 gel cell batteries.  Green lights on both inverter remote panels and on the inverters.  What should I be looking into to get 120 without shore or gen?  I have searched high and low on Google but have not been able to find my specific issue.  Search on this lovely site and did not find it here either.  My wife sometimes accuses me of looking with my eyes closed, and I do, but please help point me in the right direction.  Thank you.

[Tom Wallis]

Do a search on this site for Trace inverter reset. There are instructions there for rebooting the inverter. There is a good chance that will take care of it.

[RalphP]

I did several searches on this forum and around the internet.  I have the inverter manual as well.  I have found 2 methods on the internet but did not find "trace inverter reset" on this site, did find Magnum reset.  Nothing in the inverter manual on how to reset.    

1.  Turn off both battery disconnects.  Turn off switches on the 2 inverters.  Wait a period of time, 10 seconds, 30 seconds, several minutes.  Turn battery disconnects back on, turn both inverters back on.  Did this, no change, no 110 without shore or gen.

2.  Battery disconnects off.  Disconnect RED connection on inverter.  Wait for a few minutes.  Reconnect RED on inverters.  Turn battery disconnect on.  Turn inverters on.  I let it sit disconnected for 15 minutes.  Did this, no change, not 110 without shore or gen.  I saw on a video for a Xantrex inverter to leave it disconnected over night.  Trying that right now, disconnected yesterday afternoon.  Will head back as soon as it is light and reconnect.  Keeping my fingers crossed.

Thank you Tom for the input.

[Tom Wallis]

https://www.monacoers.org/search/?q=Trace inverter reset&quick=1

Here is the page I got when I did the search. I didn't go through it all but you might find something helpful there.

[Tom Cherry]

15 hours ago, RalphP said:

2002 Monaco Signature All Electric.  All appliances and 120 V outlets work great under shore or generator.  Once I switch to inverter no 120 V.  Inverter says "inverting", batteries are charged and charge under shore and gen.  I really need the inverter power.  I have 2 - Trace RV 3012 3000 W inverters and 5 gel cell batteries.  Green lights on both inverter remote panels and on the inverters.  What should I be looking into to get 120 without shore or gen?  I have searched high and low on Google but have not been able to find my specific issue.  Search on this lovely site and did not find it here either.  My wife sometimes accuses me of looking with my eyes closed, and I do, but please help point me in the right direction.  Thank you.

FIRST OFF... Welcome to the GROUP.

SECOND.  You get a GOLD STAR as a Newbie for doing some research....that is appreciated.

NOW....on to your issue.

Time to get out the MANUAL.  HOPEFULLY, you have the ORIGINAL OWNER's MANUAL... IF not, There is a LINK to a 2001 Dynasty.... FWIW.  The Dynasty PRINT is actually for the EXECUTIVE and (supposedly) for the Signature....so, that is ALL I have.  If you do NOT have the Manual...  Then you need to DOWNLOAD the MANUAL from Monaco Coach.  Then download a file that I am using (the 2001 Dynasty).

Here is the print you need....to look at... I can't change the ORIENTATION....so rotate it.  

HERE IS THE SCHEME or HOW you get AC POWER.  IT gets COMPLEX....so follow it....

• Shore comes in on the SHORE CORD.  IT goes to the ATS.  The ATS is NORMALLY passing through the SHORE to the MAIN PANEL.  The MAIN PANEL is on the right of the print. 

• When you start the GENNY, that 120 VAC power goes to the ATS.  The ATS is constantly monitoring the GENNY.  When the Genny COMES ON....the ATS says.  OPPS....Genny ON.  It THEN, AUTOMATICALLY, switches to feeding the MAIN PANEL. It does NOT matter if you are on SHORE.  When the GENNY RUNS....the ATS will ue the GENNY's POWER.  That DOES confuse a lot of folks.....me for one...when I bought my NEW 2009 Camelot.
• NOW....look at the MAIN PANEL.  It has TWO 30 AMP Circuit Breakers.  Look on page 8-273 of your manual.  NOW, since you have DUAL Traces....You MAY have something a little different and I don't have a PRINT on that.  BUT....these 30 Amp Breakers feed the POWER INPUT of the Trace Inverter.  I SUSPECT that ONE (L1) will go to Inverter 1 and L2 will go to Inverter 2.
• THEN....look at the INVERTER panel.   OK...  Look at the file 38011028.  YOU may have one like this in your manual...you may NOT.  BUT, this shows how TWO inverters work.  That is what you have.... NOW go back to the AC 2001 Print
• This is WHAT you have.  You MIGHT not have picked up the SUBTLE difference.  If you only had ONE inverter...it would be called a DUAL IN - DUAL OUT.  You have TWO 30 amp breakers....in the main panel.  BOTH are wired to the SINGLE inverter.  THEN there are TWO Circuits coming out....they go to the INVERTER PANEL.  They are LABELED as Inverter L1 and L2.  
• BUT....you have TWO.  SO each TRACE is WIRED as SINGLE IN - SINGLE OUT.  One Inverter is for LINE 1 and ONE is for LINE 2.  Translated....  You have the POTENTIAL for 6,000 WATTS of POWER....  If you had a SINGLE Trace....ONLY 3000 Watts of power.  SO, you can have a WHOLE LOT MORE 120 VAC devices.

NOW....read chapter 8 of the manual....and then again.  That is something you MUST know and understand.

OK>>>  LECTURE IS OVER....Questions?

In my "unique" way or writing...your QUESTION IS....How COME I DON'T HAVE AC POWER? 

First...you said on GENNY and SHORE....the AC Power is working.  You have power to ALL the receptacles.  NOW!!!!  Has it hit you....that ALL the AC POWER In the MH comes from the MAIN Panel (the TWO 30 A Breakers to the INVERTER) and then to BOTH inverters....and THEN....to the INVERTER PANEL.  That means that the Inverters have ATS's in them.  That ATS MUST pass through the POWER.  Usually, or at least on Magnum, the Inverter HAS to have a decent Battery....otherwise....it will NOT pass through the power.  The ATS in the Inverter is on the MAIN BOARD.  I just SWITCHS from INCOMING power (shore or Genny) to INVERTED power.

Your Remote is saying INVERTING.  I do NOT know what ELSE is on the Remote Display and Trace inverters are NOT my number one brand. Tom Wallis just did a search.  The 36 POSTS are, primarily, MINE.  I scanned them.  I do NOT think that there is anything specific in there.  

SO...  What I KNOW or THINK.  There are Circuit Breakers on your Inverters.  If they were NOT working....then you would have NO POWER at ANY TIME....as in on SHORE and GENNY.  BUT, you have power.... So there is power OUT of the Main Breaker....into the Trace (assume both) and POWER from the Trace(s) to the INVERTER PANEL...

The issue, and it sounds like a COP OUT....you are NOT getting any INVERTER (INVERTING) power from the Traces.  I WOULD check the Circuit Breakers on them.  TURN THEM OFF and  wait a minute....turn them ON.  BUT, since you are GETTING SHORE/GENNY through the TRACES....then problem MUST (or probably) is INTERNAL.

You were smart to do the reset.  BUT, who knows.  Electronic Gremlins are like Nucelar Radiosotopes...  They have a "HALF LIFE" that no one can predict.  MAYBE leaving the INVERTER OFF overnight will work.  I know that Magnum says on a HARD RESET (pulling the RED POWER OFF the Inverter Terminal) will work...but the EXPERIENCED Magnum techs say.  WAIT.  The instructions don't say that.  We have had several members to the OFF and ON and it did NOT work.  BUT, it did take up to TWO or so Hard Resets...to CLEAN OUT THE MAGNUM....and they left it OFF for over an HOUR...

NOW....you CAN TRY ONE OTHER THING.  TURN OFF BOTH DISCONNECTS.  Get a CAR JUMPER CABLE.  Jumper between the CHASSIS Bank and the HOUSE Bank.  ONLY THE POSITIVES.  The Negatives are attached, via a ground stud...to the CHASSIS....so the Negatives are JUMPERED.  THEN, turn ON BOTH BANKS.  NOW, CRANK THE ENGINE.  The Alternator will CHARGE BOTH Banks.  You NOW have the equivalent of a FULLY CHARGED House Bank.  The Alternator is putting out 12 VDC and it is supplying about 100 Amp...or 1,200 WATTS.  BUT, that is a KNOWN and CONSTANT and GOOD power source...

IF that gives you power....then you have an issue with the House Bank.  YES...that sounds a bit like "OK.....this is crazy"  BUT, the ONLY way to KNOW if you have "GOOD and CHARGED" House Batteries to do follow the steps in the BATTERY File below.  You can NOT take the Deep Cycle 6 VDC batteries to an auto supplier or  someone like an Interstate Dealer....who has a LOAD tester.  The LOAD testers ONLY WORK with Starting or Cranking Batteries.  THEY WILL NOT (we have had folks waste money buying NEW ones...as the dealer didn't have a clue). WORK on the Deep Cycle.

That's it.  Here is the Battery file and also the 2001 prints for the Dynasty...in case you do NOT have your OEM Manual.

Good Luck.  Keep us informed....

BTW...the ODDS of BOTH ATS's failing are SLIM and NONE...but if there was a VOLTAGE Spike or if someone connected TWO 12 VDC in series and fed the Inverter's 24 VDC....No way to TELL what happened.

 

AC 2001 Dynasty Exec Sig.pdf 38011028 (Schematic, Panel, 110 Volt, Two Sine Wave Inverter.pdf

[RalphP]

Thank you Tom and Tom.  In my mind, I suspected the house batteries.   I am "a$!" suming the are 22 YO originals.  Not enough power.  They show fully charged with Gen charging but quickly drop to 67 - 71 with nothing really drawing since the inverter does not seem to be supplying power.  I will try the jump when I get home and let you know.  I am disappointed as it looks like I have to replace the radiator, oil pan and now the house.  I prob paid too much given its needs, but too late now.  I have to get it performing and not stranding me and my wife.  First trip right now and we are VERY HAPPY.....  Thank you for the detailed help.

[Tom Cherry]

1 hour ago, RalphP said:

Thank you Tom and Tom.  In my mind, I suspected the house batteries.   I am "a$!" suming the are 22 YO originals.  Not enough power.  They show fully charged with Gen charging but quickly drop to 67 - 71 with nothing really drawing since the inverter does not seem to be supplying power.  I will try the jump when I get home and let you know.  I am disappointed as it looks like I have to replace the radiator, oil pan and now the house.  I prob paid too much given its needs, but too late now.  I have to get it performing and not stranding me and my wife.  First trip right now and we are VERY HAPPY.....  Thank you for the detailed help.

They were GOOD MH's  Sometimes simpler than the NEW ONES.  The Jumper Cable will work. As long as you are putting in JUICE.

BUT...and you probably have figured this out....

The 1200 Watts (OK, maybe 1380 If the Alternator is putting out 13.8 VDC at 100 Amps is the ONLY SURE or Replenishment Source of energy.  NOW, for a BRIEF period....the Chassis battery will work.  SO, you SAFELY should be able to run the Microwave.  That is a GOOD Draw.  BUT, if you have a 450 or 500 Watt Halogen Quartz work light....that will work too.  All you are DOING is trying to see that the TRACES work.  NOW...Remember you have TWO LINES.  SO, look at the Breakers.  You want to plug in something on each LINE.  You COULD use the Microwave....it pulls maybe 1500 Watts.  SO, test the Microwave....cup of water for 60 seconds.  If the Inverters work....the MIcrowave should WORK.  Now, don't put a load on that line ( Line 1 or 2).  THEN plug in something to to the OPPOSITE line....and test it.  That way you have Tested the LINE 1 and LINE 2 Inverters.

ODDS ARE....they will work.  BUT....if they do NOT....then here is a TRY THIS.

SInce you have the BANKS JUMPERED.  Remover the individual Jumpers on the HOUSE.  These are the ones from POSITIVE to NEGATIVE (which series connects the TWO 6 VDC batteries).  Pull the series Jumper off each set.  NOW, the Chassis Battery is working alone.  WHY...if you have a bad cell or really DEAD house.  They sometimes act as BIG RESISTORS.  SO....you are CHARGING the Chassis.  They have a RESERVE.  If you take the HOUSE OUT...as in pulling the Jumpers....  Then you STILL have current going to the HOUSE Bank Cable.  Remember, the NEGATIVES are already Jumpered on the GROUND studs.

SO....you recharge the Chassis as you pull a load.  THEN test both Line 1 and Line 2.  ODDS are...It WILL WORK..

Then, you trudge on.  BTW.  I am a SIMPLE person.  Most of us BUGGY WHIP folks.....who LIKE Flooded Cells with caps..  We use Trojan T-105's.  I'm approaching 7 years and another moderator is on his 10th year. WE DO EXERCISE.  We us Water Mizer Caps (Amazon has them).  They keep the water from being boiled off as it condenses and goes back in to each cell.  I rarely add an ounce or two a year to each cell.

DO IT RIGHT....Then, your "CONCERNS" about being Stranded are reduced.

Good Luck.  Let us know if my "Mr.  Wizard" experiment works...